Author Topic: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry  (Read 514 times)

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Offline Salish14

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Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« on: December 11, 2018, 03:37:49 am »
I'm sorry to be asking but I've exhausted my other options. I have Fred's videos, and he doesn't speak to replacing the fork seals. I've read all the threads on here I can find and still have questions. I'd appreciate any help.

I have the forks off the bike already, no problem. Fred covers that. I've ordered the Traction kit, and new seals and dust covers from Murphs. All set on parts.

What I still can't understand is whether it is best to just pull the outer tube off the inner tube to replace the seals, since I have them off the bike and will be changing the oil. Don't see how I can't do that, and still get the new seals on. I've read about seating the new seals with a PVC pipe cut to the purpose, and using old seals to drive the new seals on, and I'm OK with all that. I just don't know the procedure for getting the old seals out, and the new seals into position. Can't find that anywhere on Youtube either.

COG to my rescue?
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

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Offline The Pope

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 10:04:33 am »
Can't find that anywhere on Youtube either.

COG to my rescue?

Did you search for "inverted fork seal replacement" ?
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Offline ZXtasy

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 11:52:57 am »
Long hex bit to go up through axle area, hit it with an air wrench, separate the tubes. I find it to be very simple and adds not much time but makes cleaning and seal R&R easier for me. I have done about 20 USD forks this way.
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 02:32:52 pm »
Yes, I've found videos online about inverted forks but they all seem a little or a lot different from the actual design of the Connie forks. I'm rather amazed, given the regularity of this project, that there isn't a good step by step tutorial on COG or on Fred's videos or online elsewhere. At least I can't find it.

From what I've seen online, I have to pop off the dust guard with a gentle screwdriver, reach in to remove the metal locking ring, and then I can pop the whole thing apart by sliding it against itself like a slide hammer. Guess I reuse the bushings that are evidently in there. The manual shows the parts, but the manual way of doing things is often not the best DIY way.

I've be digging into everything tonight as my Traxxion kit comes.

ZXtasy: When you say hit it with an air wrench, what are you taking off? I've already removed the forks from the bike, so I guess I didn't already loosen the top nut since I don't recall Fred suggesting that. But once I have all the guts taken out of the forks and drained the oil, what are you hitting with an air wrench? Are you doing this instead of using the assembly as a slide hammer?
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

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Offline ZXtasy

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 05:58:21 pm »
Sorry, I mean the bottom of the fork socket head bolt that holds the assembly/internals all together. Look at an exploded diagram and you will see.
2013 ZG-1400, 2005 ZX-10R (Nekkid), 2012 TW-200, 1999 TW-200....and more to come.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 11:02:25 pm »
Here's how one Australian owner did it.  (You may have to join the group to view it, tho).  It's not a common task on the bike.   To loosen the top cap you will need to fit the forks back unto the triple clamp.  Put a thin bit of rap of the hex to protect it - but you probly did that already.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/gtr1000/fork-cylinder-tool-t6982-s20.html
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 11:06:22 pm by Freddy »
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Offline JDSCO

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 12:15:04 am »
The op writes "I've ordered the traction kit"
I'm assuming you mean Traxxion in lieu of "traction"

This is one oem cartridge from my 2016 C14
The "Front Fork Bottom Allen Bolts", on the oem KYB cartridge disassembly, are not torqued very tight, they are threadlocked but are removed quite easily
Simply and gently, pull the cartridge assy to the side, just gently enough to hold the cartridge from spinning while you untighten those bolts
Traxxion supplies a square tube that acts as a wrench to hold their cartridge from spinning at reassembly, while you gently tighten the bolts back in
Traxxion doesn't recommend torquing those bolt to 17ft/lb at reassembly as fork oil tends to "weep" from the sealing washer on those bolts that are torqued to that spec
They do recommend "tightening by hand" which is open to your personal interpretation
It works perfectly on my Traxxion forks
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 12:19:00 am by JDSCO »
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 02:01:11 am »
Thanks everyone! Ok, tonight I've removed the top cap even thought it was out of the triple clamp. Helps to have a strong teenage son around. Got that off, drained the oil, rinsed it all out with kerosene. Popped off the dust cap. Removed the circlip. And have pulled the inner tube out of the outer tube. On the video I found online they show using the inner tube to slide hammer the seal out. Turns out on our Connies the inner tube slides right out leaving everything behind!

So now my question and problem is how to get that seal out without damaging anything. I've tried some gentle prying with a screw driver but it is showing no signs of moving. Tried getting a grip with a needle nose, and that isn't working either.

So how do you get the seal out?

I'm making progress!
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 26,000 and counting

Offline JDSCO

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 02:14:53 am »
The dust seal has the outer lip exposed
Usually, you can get your fingernails between the seal lip and the upper tube and pull the dust seal out
If not, use a wood or plastic dowel with a flat sanded onto the end

Don't use anything that's metal-to-metal

The oil seal, recessed further in can be pryed out, using a screwdriver tip into but not through the old seal and use a wooden or plastic buffer between the fork tube and screwdriver shank

No metal-to-metal!
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 02:23:27 am »
Thanks JDSCO. I got it. Used a long handled screwdriver braced against some cloth. I've done that a lot on car seals over the years, but usually on cars the seals are in heavy steel, and not soft aluminum. Now I am ready to reassemble. The adventure continues. Thanks so much to all who responded.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

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Offline The Pope

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 10:22:05 am »
Have you been taking photos or video of this?
You yourself mentioned that you couldn't find anything specific for the C14 Fork.
I hope that you have and with that, you'll do a nice DIY Write Up.
The Pope
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 02:28:53 pm »
Went to put it all back together last night and discovered the the fork seal and wiper kit I got from Murph was the wrong kit, despite my ordering the only kit listed on their website for bikes 1999 and up (what do I know?). Be warned. I'm working through return to them and replacement now.

I think I will photo document my work on my second fork, now that I know how the darn things work. But I'll wait to be successful putting Fork #1 back together first.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

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Offline JDSCO

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 09:24:43 pm »
Well...the wrong seals definitely suck, eh?

I have to ask, are you installing Traxxion AK20's? (traction vs Traxxion)

SKF makes a fork seal for the 43mm KYB
Pn SKF KITG-43K
It's typically available locally here in CO, it's a common 43mm seal with the dirt bike crowd and it's a heavy-duty seal, albeit more expensive
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Offline Stasch

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 09:54:21 pm »
Quote
Murph was the wrong kit, despite my ordering the only kit listed on their website for bikes 1999 and up

'99 and up' - Those are for the C10 models.  I can't find C14 fork seals on his site at all.
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Offline Salish14

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 12:50:53 am »
I'm still using the stock forks and this is my first time servicing them since I bought my bike with 8K. Has 26K now and I can't say what was done to it before i got it. The oil I just drained was not as bad as I feared it might be. Definitely a bit dark, and flaky with metal shavings. Good to do this for sure. I'm using the Traxxion fork kit, that's all.

Heard back from Murph's today that they don't carry fork seals for the C14. Nothing I saw on their site says they don't, and so I've asked him to change his language from 1999 and up to 1999-2007!

I'm getting the seals OEM from a local dealer tomorrow. Then I'll button it all back up and take pictures of my second fork. Can't wait to get back on the old grey beard. Riding my wife's R3 feels like a go cart, and let me tell you, in the dark and pouring rain, I'd sure rather have my Connie!

We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 26,000 and counting

Offline Salish14

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Re: Question on replacing fork seals, sorry
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2018, 11:46:44 pm »
Happy to report that I finished up today and after taking her for a ride I am delighted that all is well. Boy, now that I've done it once it really would go quickly in the future.

As for Beta, there is not much specific to the Connie forks. The main things I would add, that I couldn't find online myself, is that:

1. The Connie forks will slide right apart once off the bike. You can pry off the dust wiper while it is still all together but off the bike. But after that, go ahead and after draining the oil, pull the two halves apart. Unlike the videos you will see online, the bushings on the Connie forks do not by themselves pop off the oil seal. Or to put another way, the bushings on the Connie fork are all in the bigger tube, and none on the inner, smaller tube. For this reason, the inner tube slides right out.

2. Like with every other seal you may have had to pry off a car, the oil seal on the Connie pops right out with a good long flat blade screwdriver. Lever against a thin piece of wood or plastic so as to not damage the aluminum. You can catch the inner edge of the oil seal by placing the screwdriver about half way down the inside edge of the seal, and it shoves in there. Takes a bit of force, but don't be afraid.

3. Really, that was all that seemed particular to the Connie. I used 1.5" PVC pipe cut in half and trimmed a bit more to seat the oil seal. There's probably a million ways to do this oil seal seating, but none of them should include any damage to the seal itself or the aluminum.

My old oil was not as dark as I thought it might be, given I have 26K on the bike and it had to be original since the PO almost certainly wouldn't have done the fork oil before he sold it with 8K. There was some sludgy flaky dark oil down at the bottom of the outer tube where the seal sits, but the main body of oil itself was fine. Just in case you are wondering. I had no leaks and given the state of the oil, I certainly could have gone a few thousand more than 26K. I used Honda Suspension Fluid 5W, as my fluid. You will need at least 2, and I strongly recommend 3 bottles of the stuff. Each fork takes a full bottle, and that leaves none for rinsing or little mistakes.

Thanks again for the help here. Can't tell you how good it felt to hit 90 today and swerve like a demon at 20,30, 40 and 50. Everything was smooth. No wobbles. I cleaned and greased my steering stem bearings too.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.

2008 ABS Silver with 26,000 and counting