Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours 14 Discussion (C14 / ZG1400 / 1400GTR) => Tires/Suspension C14 => Topic started by: RoadKillHeaven on April 01, 2018, 02:10:42 am

Title: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on April 01, 2018, 02:10:42 am
 I am not trying to be cheap. I am simply experementing with what Conni likes to have as footwear. OE tires lasted nearly 8K miles, front developed rather conical wear which has contributed to very nervous front end in the bends. Rear, on the orher hand, had 1-2k to go with modest center flat spot wear.
 Since 021 front tire had produced packer moments every time I've ridden my C14 exuberantly - I've said enough of this footle- time to find new shoes. I've wanted to try RoadSmart3, but I've found Shinkos at silly enough price to refuse to pass up.
 Install at Andrew's garage was a breeze. Tires exhibited no vibrations, no weird noise. After 1k miles, tires show very little wear, more so on the sides than in the middle.
 Comparing handling between OE tires and these cheep-o rubber made by subsidiery of Yokohama, I venture to say Bridgestone could use some cues from other manufactures how to make proper tire.
 016 exhibits more or less neutral handling at partial lean. Although I haven't found max lean I can take Conni to, I can attest 016s are easier to hold @ lean angles than BT021 where latter tire had rather tippy behavior, eager to fall in and lose its poise midcorner.
I haven't noticed such behaviour from 016.
 I live in rainy Seattle, so riding in cold and rainy conditions are norm during winter months. 016 performed admirably. I haven't had scarry moments in the rain. Thanks to heavy front end, and rock-steady poise of C14 , corners I had aprehention taking while riding Vee, were a non-issues this past winter.
 At nearly 2k miles, I've noticed slight flat forming @ rear tire. I don't remember when 021 had developed flat spot, however.

 For half the price of RS3, mounted, I should not complain, even if 016 last less than OE 021s.

Cheers...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: CRocker on April 01, 2018, 05:05:21 am
I think Bridgestone knows how to make a proper tire.  What most people don't understand is that an OEM tire is not the best tire made...it is a tire that had to come in at a price point...so as to keep the price of the bike, as a whole, in line.  That is why many aftermarket tires offer an improvement to the OEM tire...they are not restricted to be made for the manufacturer's (of the motorcycle) price point.  Manufacturers are beginning to see the value in this...note the HDs...or, the Yamaha FZs...these bikes (and, probably more) come with premium tires as OEM...it might cost the bike manufacturers $40 more per bike to do that...but, there are no comments made about "crappy OEM tires"...and, most Concours riders are familiar with that statement, if they bought their bikes new...

Most tire manufacturers make a variety of tires...and, there is a variety of quality and performance...both motorcycle and automobile...I have yet to hear anybody lump Bridgestone's T30 or T31 tires into the "crappy OEM tires" group...

Most all of the OEM tires are simply a tire that was made to hit a price point...

I'm also thinking about the 016s for my next tire...am really interested in hearing more about your tires "squaring off" after a couple of thousand miles.

Safe riding.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on April 01, 2018, 08:57:34 am
I beg to differ. Stock tires on Vee were Bringestone TrailWing (so-called DeathWings).  TrialWing tires almost cost me my life. Low-siding a bike on a highway at >60Mph was not what you'd call exciting. Luckily for me motorists behind maintained safe distance and were able to stop. Low-side spill was attributed to previous accident which resulted in spilled antifreeze and oil which I didn't see mixed with rain water. I replaced them with BattleWing tires which was an improvement. I had them for 4-5K miles when I start noticing similar to Trail Wing behavior. So I ditched BT tires all together. After switching to PR4 Trail, I've never had an issue with slip-sliding even in a wettest of conditions. PR4 Trail on my Vee lasted 22K miles front, 12-13K miles rear. There is no way to get mileage like that on C14. 
If I get 8K miles out of 016, I'd be happy.
P.S What I meant to convey regarding cues for making a better tire was to make a better economy tire. A better tire that has uniform wear and doesn't exhibit weird behavior after miles have been accumulated. 
 
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Turtle on April 01, 2018, 12:51:37 pm
My Connie had T30's on it when purchased, I hated them and they never felt secure when leaned over. Put on Pilot Roads and currently at 9200 miles with maybe 2k more in the rear.

I would be surprised if you get more than 5k out of the 016's.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on April 26, 2018, 06:11:06 am
Update:
3K miles on Verge.
Rear tire flat spot has disappeared due to improving weather and riding less in a straight line!  :great:
Tires are a bit nervous on the edge. I felt rear slip at almost full lean (toe slider scraping pavement) moment. But Connie corpulence saves most pucker moments as its stability is remarkable.

Cheers...
   
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: CRocker on April 26, 2018, 11:27:26 am
How is it faring regarding to your 8k miles projection?  I am going to put a new Angel ST on my front wheel today...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on April 27, 2018, 02:09:19 am
If I can attain 8K miles out of Verge set, I'd be content
Most touring tires wear well under 3-4K miles. After that wear could go either way!

Cheers...
 
 
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: GIant81 on April 27, 2018, 04:27:52 pm
I got 6k out of my rear 016 and 7500 out of the front and all of that was mostly straight/flat commuting. 
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Phil on April 27, 2018, 08:37:45 pm
If I can attain 8K miles out of Verge set, I'd be content
Most touring tires wear well under 3-4K miles. After that wear could go either way!

Cheers...

I have over 6300 miles on my PR4 front so far, and around 5400 on the rear and they both look very good. I changed the rear after only around 1,000 miles since I had a good nail in it. I plugged it and rode it a while locally, but changed it before a 2700 mile trip to Yellowstone and around.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on May 04, 2018, 04:02:44 am
Update:
I do not think front tire will last more than 5K. It is down to half the depth. Wow. C14 is a nose heavy beast!
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: ANTHONY on June 07, 2018, 05:29:16 pm
I just changed my 016 after 9500 miles so I can tell you that they will last as long as you keep proper pressure in them. I'll post a PIC as I recently changed them, still have some wear left. I am also 230lb guy so it wasn't like I was light on the tires. I can tell you that I had zero problem in any condition with these tires as well, they worked well in rain and in the cold and of course just fine in the heat. I road it through end of November in MI loading it up with my bow and hunting apparel Putting 150 miles a day 3 times a week for 2 months and in many cases I would strap a 50lb bag of corn on back seat and tires worked great with the extra weight.  For the price of these tires and way I drove the bike they were phenomenal overall. Are they a Michelin? NO, but I think they proved to be a good tire.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Vic on June 07, 2018, 06:05:38 pm
Update:
I do not think front tire will last more than 5K. It is down to half the depth. Wow. C14 is a nose heavy beast!

Are you keeping PSI at 42 on the front, or lower?
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: ANTHONY on June 08, 2018, 04:32:18 pm
No I run 38-40 Max
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Vic on June 08, 2018, 09:45:15 pm
While 38-40 might seem ideal, with the C14's weight, those lower pressures will accelerate wear by excessive flex and therefore generating heat; especially with your bodyweight. You might benefit from lighter handling and slightly longer front tire life with PSI closer to recommended. Your bodyweight will help insure good front end grip, so I wouldn't worry about that.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on June 10, 2018, 06:12:34 am
Thanks for reassuring review. I keep Connie's shoes at 40psi cold. 
it is nearly 4K on the set, the wear seems to have paused.


Cheers...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: connie_rider on June 29, 2018, 02:30:55 pm
Like roadkillheaven ,  I hoped the Shinko's would be good e'nuff to use them.
Have to admit, they felt/handled pretty good.

But; I have about 2000 on mine and on the rear tire looks BAD.
  The small rain groove near the center is "gone" and the bigger/deeper one (sets slightly off side) is considerably shallower.
   Front tire looks ok.

At the National, I had a flat on the rear and will be replacing it.
    Will see at that time if the tire is as thin as I suspect or just the small grooves are gone. {Poor rain groove design?}

NOTE: I ride in the hot south on our rough roads and get a max of about 5000 miles on the rear / mebbe 6000 on the front.
            We've noticed that the riders up North get a lot better mileage out of their tires, and suspect the difference is the road construction?
          I also trailer to the events/enjoy the event/then trailer home, so I do not accumulate many highway miles on my tires. {ie; No flat bottom}
               {and Yes, I know I'm a sinner}  :-[
          Bottom line: I seriously doubt I would have gotten 2500 miles out of the rear.
                              Before the flat I planned to remove them because of the looks at about 2000.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on July 01, 2018, 12:10:01 am
Ted I have about 4k on a verge 011 rear and it still looks like there's rubber left. It is a bit flat spotted. I should probably look at it closely.  Still handles pretty well also. The front has about 2k on it since I procrastinated installing it after the rear.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: ANTHONY on July 05, 2018, 07:37:45 pm
Roads in Michigan are complete garbage because of the big weather swings we have here so I certainly don't think roads are better here. We do have a little bit milder weather versus the deep south but we still get 90's through the summer. I am blown away that people only get 2500 miles on these tires. If you keep your tires clean, at the correct pressure and get on the sides a little every 25-50 miles or so they should last well over 5k easy. I always roll my tires over edge to edge every so often even if I'm on strait road for hundreds of miles to keep them wearing evenly. I am a big buy and I ride my bike pretty hard and I have road so many different brands of tires and cant come up with one unless it was a pure sport bike tire that didn't last 5k. Guess you guys need to stop doing burnouts!!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Matthew on July 11, 2018, 01:16:29 am
Could someone take a picture of this tire installed? I specifically told the tire shop to notice the direction of the tire and install it, but they did exactly opposite of how it's supposed to go but wouldn't believe me, no matter how I argued. I would have done it myself, but I broke my mojo lever dismounting the old, stiff, crusty tire.  :-[
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on July 11, 2018, 10:43:00 pm
shot of front and rear tires, respectively.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: connie_rider on July 27, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
All, (after looking at RoadKillHeaven's photo's), I looked at my rear Shinko again and the wear was not as bad as I thought.
  ie; It has a bit of a flat center, and my rear tire looks worse at 2000 miles than RoadKillHeaven's look at 4000 miles.
            But the deeper/larger grooves appear ok.

Unfortunately,,, it has a flat from a puncture.   :-[
{Plugged twice at the National due to a flat; with poor result}

I will admit I was pretty impressed by the way the bike handled with the Shinko's.
  So, I just ordered another rear Shinko to use as I finish the front Shinko.

Will see what mileage it gives me this time...

Ride safe, Ted

Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on July 31, 2018, 01:53:05 am
I've crossed 6K miles. I reckon front tire will reach 0/32 before the rear tire. I reckon it has another 1K miles before deemed worn out. I shall see.
I've already ordered another set of 016s.

Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Douglas on August 06, 2018, 02:56:35 am
A dips*** once told me how he put a set of shinkos on and they weren't round so had to take them off. Guess he had no idea how to seat a bead. But he was bashing shinkos w all his might. Arguing w him made me feel like meathead arguing w Archie.

I agree that Shinkos give the most bang for the buck. I just stopped trying to explain it to every numskull that comes along. Now I let people buy their brand loyal favorite junk w a banner and inflatable marshmallow. I gave up. The old man quietly smiling makes sense to me...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Matthew on August 07, 2018, 02:50:30 pm
I put my first 30 miles on these tires last night to start the break-in. They feel good and much more confidence inspiring than the last tires were on (old, crusty OEM tires)!
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on August 13, 2018, 11:15:50 am
At about 7K miles on the tires.  They seem to have a few more.
Front tire is becoming a bit tipsy at ambitious lean angles. Otherwise no weird handling or noises or cupping.  Tire pressure between 38-40 psi.
I'd be a monkey's uncle if 016's last more that 8k.
We shall see.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on August 27, 2018, 11:03:04 am
400 more miles and I hit 8K.!
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: connie_rider on August 27, 2018, 01:01:41 pm
"8K Miles"!!!
That's amazing!
I don't get near that, even with a PR-4..

I spooned another Shinko rear on recently.
  {Had a flat on the last one and decided to replace it.}
Will see how this one does.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Undertaker on August 27, 2018, 02:32:49 pm
I can't say one bad thing about Shinko tires.
 :)Great savings in money over others brands, and they stick in the turns and give me good mileage.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 05, 2018, 11:02:18 pm
Crossed the 8K mark. I've noticed left side of rear tire is more worn than right side. I attribute that to road crown.
There still 1/32 left. I'll wait until "normal" Seattle weather resumes before I put new rubber on.

I am impressed by these cheap-O-tires many dismiss as a bad juju.
   
Cheers...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 28, 2018, 05:02:34 am
@ about 8200 miles rear tire, all of the sudden, has shown cords. I'd gone for a ride, came back home, checked tires and saw it. :o
New tires are on.   :great: :motonoises:

Cheers...

Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: connie_rider on September 28, 2018, 01:46:32 pm
"8K Miles"!!!
That's amazing!
I don't get anywhere near that, even with a PR-4..

I spooned another Shinko rear on recently.
  {Had a flat on the last one and decided to replace it.}
Will see how this one does.

Ride safe, Ted

Update; I rode 300 miles of twisties in Arkansas last weekend.
After I got home, I was amazed by the amount of wear I had on the new rear tire.
As I sed in an earlier post I'm very doubtful if I'll get 2500 out of these, (Particularly if I keep doing Arkansas twisties with Cliff)  :great: but I have to admit,,, they stuck like glue...
 

Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 28, 2018, 02:25:13 pm
It seems pavement is not as abrasive here in Pacific NW as it is down south.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: SATXRIDER on September 28, 2018, 06:47:02 pm
I think I am going to give the Shinko rear tire a try.  Low expectation, but should get me thru the winter riding season hopefully and I get get a better tire in the Spring.

Steve
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Just Cliff on September 28, 2018, 11:19:06 pm
As I sed in an earlier post I'm very doubtful if I'll get 2500 out of these, (Particularly if I keep doing Arkansas twisties with Cliff)

Don't blame me. You just keep coming up here to see my smiling face!   :nananana:
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on September 29, 2018, 03:09:52 am
It seems like I got a defective rear tire. At about 35-40 mph handbars shimmy. At higher speeds rear end bobbing. When on center stand, gear engaged, with engine running, I can see a low spot on the left side of rear tire. It is as if bias ply tires develop flat spot after sitting a while.
Bummer...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: CRocker on September 29, 2018, 11:59:27 am
Verge 2x is a radial...

What tire are you referring to...?
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: connie_rider on September 29, 2018, 12:07:33 pm
Yes, I agree. Mine is a radial.
 Maybe that explains the difference in mileage that we're seeing?

Ride safe, Ted

PAS: Cliff I don't blame you, and it sure ain't the smiling face..
         Arkansas roads are sorta like an addiction.
            Gotta have "MORE"...   :motonoises:
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Douglas on October 01, 2018, 01:03:41 am
Here's me dragging a knee with Shinkos
YouTube video: https://youtu.be/98bWb6ciZT4
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Douglas on October 02, 2018, 02:57:53 pm
Is it stepping into turns too easy it's probably because the front forks are too soft low or sag adjustment is inadequate. tires have little to do with the way of bike dips into turns unless the profile the tire changed the height of the bike.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on October 07, 2018, 01:17:06 am
Is it stepping into turns too easy it's probably because the front forks are too soft low or sag adjustment is inadequate. tires have little to do with the way of bike dips into turns unless the profile the tire changed the height of the bike.

Douglas, more than once a change of front tires significantly changed how my bike dips into the corners.  I don't believe the tire heights varied that much. Maybe but they were all 120/70's.  I think it's more tire shape and construction.  Hek Angel GT's (non A-spec) with 2k miles had much different dip-in than when they were new.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: connie_rider on November 14, 2018, 03:01:04 pm
All, (after looking at RoadKillHeaven's photo's), I looked at my rear Shinko again and the wear was not as bad as I thought.
  ie; It has a bit of a flat center, and my rear tire looks worse at 2000 miles than RoadKillHeaven's look at 4000 miles.
            But the deeper/larger grooves appear ok.

Unfortunately,,, it has a flat from a puncture.   :-[
{Plugged twice at the National due to a flat; with poor result}

I will admit I was pretty impressed by the way the bike handled with the Shinko's.
  So, I just ordered another rear Shinko to use as I finish the front Shinko.

Will see what mileage it gives me this time...

Ride safe, Ted

Update on mileage; Since the installation of the new Shinko on the rear I made 2 trips to Arkansas.
                                  I kept the used Shinko on the front to finish it out.

                             The new rear is pretty badly worn after 733 miles of Arkansas riding and the front is also worn badly. No flat spots. Worn uniformly...
                                 (I think the front has less than 3000 miles on it).
                              Neither has cord showing, but their too far gone to try another trip/long ride.
                             NOTE: I trailered the bike to Ark so there are no road miles...  All the miles on the rear were done while playing.
                              On the plus side; They handled/stuck really well...  :great:

NOTE: I've been doing some local rides as it's not actually showing tread yet.. <grin>
          Now at 1153 miles on the tire and still handling well..
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: BiggusDekkus on December 07, 2018, 07:38:05 pm
Hi RoadKill;
Saw that you are also using Andrew for mounting your tires.  He does a great job at a reasonable price, about half of what most shops would charge.

I have about 9,500 miles on my current set of Pirelli Angel GT A-spec tires.  They still have some mileage left in them, but I ordered another set of Pirelli's yesterday and will have Andrew install them sometime during the next couple months.  Best tires ever!
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Douglas on December 17, 2018, 03:22:50 am
If you like that you should try a 110 front next time. It'll amaze you. Save the 120 for the track
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Big Brian on January 05, 2019, 01:56:30 pm
I just picked up my 08 last weekend.

The dealer put on brand new Shinko Verge tires on front and back.

Since then, ive put on about 350mi. About 100 of those was riding on hard twisty corners normally reserved for my Ducati.

I am very pleased with their performance with gripping the road.

I cannot comment on longevity at this point until I put on more miles.

My Pirelli's on my Ducati seem to struggle to get to 5K so if these make it to 8K I will be pleased.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: CRocker on January 05, 2019, 05:47:14 pm
I just picked up my 08 last weekend.

The dealer put on brand new Shinko Verge tires on front and back.

Since then, ive put on about 350mi. About 100 of those was riding on hard twisty corners normally reserved for my Ducati.

I am very pleased with their performance with gripping the road.

I cannot comment on longevity at this point until I put on more miles.

My Pirelli's on my Ducati seem to struggle to get to 5K so if these make it to 8K I will be pleased.

Verge?  Or Verge 2X?  Shinko makes both...
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Big Brian on January 20, 2019, 01:48:03 pm
I just picked up my 08 last weekend.

The dealer put on brand new Shinko Verge tires on front and back.

Since then, ive put on about 350mi. About 100 of those was riding on hard twisty corners normally reserved for my Ducati.

I am very pleased with their performance with gripping the road.

I cannot comment on longevity at this point until I put on more miles.

My Pirelli's on my Ducati seem to struggle to get to 5K so if these make it to 8K I will be pleased.

Verge?  Or Verge 2X?  Shinko makes both...

The Verge not the Verge 2x
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: Tundra on March 21, 2019, 09:23:59 am
As if you all don't already know...here's some reviews that seem to be in line with yours. These will be my next tire and for this price I don't care if I don't like them. I can't find anyone that has used them say anything negative about them...yet
https://www.motosport.com/shinko-016-verge-2x-tire-combo (https://www.motosport.com/shinko-016-verge-2x-tire-combo)
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: RoadKillHeaven on March 22, 2019, 04:00:42 am
I will refrain form saying negative things about F016 Shinko. After all, it is/was my subjective experience with these tires. Second set did not fair well as I had to claim warranty twice. Each time front tire under-performed, exhibiting the same shimmy.
Since then I've replaced front tire (I know mix-n-match is not the best solution) with BT016 and my shimmy issue is completely gone!   

I do not think I will ever go back to Shinko tires.

 
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: MtnRider on March 28, 2019, 03:12:27 pm
I just ordered a set as the front tire is all but bald & the rear is close behind. With a 55 series rear they were $212 shipped to CO from Amazon. That was the best price I could find.
Title: Re: Shinko 016 Verge 2x impressions.
Post by: PeteTN_zgtr on September 28, 2019, 08:30:40 am
Adding my experience with the Verge 011. Just turned 8000mi on the rear, 6k on front. Handling has been good. I don't push it hard in the corners but overall the leaning/turning feel has stayed pretty neutral. Front tire is much rounder than any others I've tried after lots of miles (not a half hexagon). I'm not convinced dual compound on the front is better. Used the 180/55 since they don't make a 190/55. I don't ride in the rain much so no opinion on them in the wet. Going to try the 016 190/50 on the rear next.