Author Topic: Tire Pressure Monitor question  (Read 5182 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline beachtrader_FL

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 4
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« on: March 06, 2009, 10:37:00 am »
Just got a new 08 Concours 14.  My rear tire pressure is not being displayed on the display screen - wonder if anyone has insight or a quick fix before I take'r in to the stealer.    Thanks    besides that, bike is awesome.  

Offline smithr1

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 5166
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 6197
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 03:37:00 pm »
From what I have read this could be normal.  If it comes back after you ride a while then your good.  ----------------------------------  South Central Area Director  Email scad@cog-online.org    <p align="left">My Photos<br
---
Bob Smith (smithr)
Austin, Texas baby!
2010 Kawasaki Concours, Midnight Blue
COG 6197, CDA 107

Offline Iceman

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 39
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8639
  • Membership Level: Active
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2009, 12:55:00 am »
My '09 had the same problem so I had it fixed under warranty. Must be somewhat common.  

VirginiaJim

  • Guest
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2009, 10:10:00 am »
It, or the battery is dead in the sending unit.  Dealer issue.  I would hate to say it's a common occurrance but it does seem to affect more than a few right off the floor.  Look to have the low battery warning come up when it get's very cold as well.  Not much you can do about that one.  It goes away after the tire is warmed up a bit.  My daughter's Nissan does the same thing and the sensors look the same from the outside.  Probably the same vendor.....  08 Concours 14  King George, VA

Offline David

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 4
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2009, 01:48:00 pm »
Just picked my 2009 C14 up last night and the front tire pressure is not being displayed.  Guess I have another good reason to take it for a spin today.  Off to the shop  

Offline Fireman

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 1
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 11:13:00 pm »
Had the same problem when bike was new.Dealer ordered a new one and it was bad also.Third time was the charm though.Also low batt, warning below approx 25 degrees F. Probably a manufacturing problem. Kaw. took care of it under warranty,no problem unless it recurs after warranty runs out.really good ride otherwise.                                       Firefighter, NM  

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

  • COG Technical Editor
  • Industry Member
  • Iron Butt
  • *
  • Posts: 3155
    • Angel Ride Videos
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 2170
  • Membership Level: Active
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2009, 04:56:00 pm »
If the sensor readout shows dashes all the time, then you have a problem with a sensor and will probably have to get the dealer to replace it.    However, low battery warnings in cold temps for the first few miles are caused by the nature of lithium batteries that the sensor uses. If the low battery warning goes off after the tires warm up a bit, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it.    http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/mboards/viewmessages.cfm?clubID=1328&forum=1404&Topic=16691      
Quote
 The tire pressure sensors in the C14 are powered by a small lithium ion coin type battery. Lithium batteries are subject to a problem that causes the initial voltage on them to be low, due to a passivation layer that builds up on the anode of the battery when they are at rest. As current is drawn from the battery, this passivation layer breaks down, and the voltage begins to rise back to normal. In colder temps, the passivation layer breaks down at a slower rate, thus causing low battery warning messages. If the message goes away after a couple minutes of riding, this is most likely what is occurring, but if it stays on, then you could have a bad battery in your tire pressure sensor.    FYI, I have taken a sensor apart, and it would be possible to replace the battery in one, though they aren't really designed to have that done. You have to split open the case, and then buy a coin battery with tabs spot welded on it, and you would have to solder it onto the circuit board. Since the tire pressure sensors are covered under the 3 year warranty, if you have a bad battery in one, I would suggest getting your dealer to replace it. He will also have to program it into the KIPASS ECU with the Kawasaki KDS3 diagnostic tool.    When bikes start going out of warranty, owners might want to start trying to change out batteries on their own, since the sensors are about $135 each, and then you would have to also pay the dealer labor to reprogram the KIPASS for the new sensor.    As for the low pressure warning, it is designed to come on when the tires reach 32 psi (or 220 KPA). This is normal operation    The photos below show a sensor opened up, and are provided for your entertainment only.    http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/tiresensor      
           
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 07:57:00 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
Fred H.


Thanksgiving Sale in Effect now!  Concours 1400 Maintenance Videos 
http://www.angelridevideos.com

Offline S Smith

  • Northeast Area Director
  • Officer
  • I Need a Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 5170
    • COG Northeast Area Home Page
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 3184
  • Membership Level: Administrator
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2009, 06:44:00 am »
Fred...   Thanks for posting the info and photo. I was wondering what the sensor looked like. My electrical engineering background has me thinking (although difficult to tell from the photo) that the part you have labeled as the transmitter looks suspiciously like a crystal oscillator (which would be needed by a xmitter and/or microcontroller. What are the markings on the device? Any markings on the unknown device?     I have had some experience trying to replace Li coin cells similar to this type...  Unless an OEM source can be found for the type with the crimped on tabs I would not attempt to solder leads directly to the battery.  The heat from even a low wattage solder tip can cause the cell to explode without warning (been there, done that).     --  Steve Smith, COG #3184  COG Northeast Area Director  (somewhere in south central CT)     If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
| Steve Smith | COG #3184 | MSF/CONREP RC |

There is more to be gained by members raising hands saying "I'll do that" instead of pointing fingers saying "nobody's doing that."

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

  • COG Technical Editor
  • Industry Member
  • Iron Butt
  • *
  • Posts: 3155
    • Angel Ride Videos
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 2170
  • Membership Level: Active
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2009, 07:48:00 pm »
You can buy batteries at Mouser with tabs already spot welded on them. I'm told that Batteries Plus stores can also do this for you. The battery itself is a simple CR2032 coin battery, that is pretty common.    Those labels I put on the chips may not be correct. I pulled up some info for the pressure chip off the net last year, and found that it has an accelerometer built into it, and that is how it turns itself on and off when you park the bike. I also found that the chip contains a temperature sensor, and that it compensates the pressure readings based on internal tire temp.    Here is the battery it uses:  http://www.renata.com/pdf/3vlithium/CR2032_v06.pdf    Here is a battery from Mouser that looks like it would work, and already has tabs spot welded on it.  http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=2Exw0Z2g%252bZAcLpzsRoNazw%3d%3d    I also found what appears to be the exact same sensors here, made by LDL (in France). The unit in the C14 is also made by LDL.    http://www.vancosport.com/_wsn/page22.html        Here is some info from the product sheet from the SP30 chip inside the sensor.        And here is a look at some of the marking on the C14 sensor.              
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 11:00:00 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
Fred H.


Thanksgiving Sale in Effect now!  Concours 1400 Maintenance Videos 
http://www.angelridevideos.com

Offline S Smith

  • Northeast Area Director
  • Officer
  • I Need a Life
  • ****
  • Posts: 5170
    • COG Northeast Area Home Page
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 3184
  • Membership Level: Administrator
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 06:15:00 am »
Fred    Thanks. that is good info.     You are correct that there are sources for the tabbed batteries.  I guess I just wanted to point out that it is not safe for someone to go to Radio Shack, purchase a standard CR2032 and tack a couple of wires on it.     Thanks for the additional info on the pressure sender.  The tire pressure chip vendor may be Infineon. Here is a link:    http://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/applications/automotive/safety/tpms.html        --  Steve Smith, COG #3184  COG Northeast Area Director  (somewhere in south central CT)     If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.  
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 11:00:00 am by SSmith_3184 »
| Steve Smith | COG #3184 | MSF/CONREP RC |

There is more to be gained by members raising hands saying "I'll do that" instead of pointing fingers saying "nobody's doing that."

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

  • COG Technical Editor
  • Industry Member
  • Iron Butt
  • *
  • Posts: 3155
    • Angel Ride Videos
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 2170
  • Membership Level: Active
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 08:00:00 am »
Yes, I believe it was Infineon. If I remember correct, that is where I got the spec sheet from the chip.  
Fred H.


Thanksgiving Sale in Effect now!  Concours 1400 Maintenance Videos 
http://www.angelridevideos.com

Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

  • COG Technical Editor
  • Industry Member
  • Iron Butt
  • *
  • Posts: 3155
    • Angel Ride Videos
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 2170
  • Membership Level: Active
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 08:02:00 am »
Yes, I believe it was Infineon. If I remember right, that is where I got the spec sheet from. And yes, you are correct, you wouldn't want to try to solder on a battery. Bad things happen to them when too much heat is applied.  
Fred H.


Thanksgiving Sale in Effect now!  Concours 1400 Maintenance Videos 
http://www.angelridevideos.com

Offline beachtrader_FL

  • Big Wheels
  • Posts: 4
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Tire Pressure Monitor question
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2009, 01:42:00 pm »
Exactly the type of response I thought - thank you all so much - bottom line-Dealer     thanks again