Author Topic: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)  (Read 5651 times)

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Offline rrsperry

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What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« on: January 17, 2017, 01:08:50 am »
Ok, what's with the 22mm hex required for the front bolt?  That sure looks like an answer to a question nobody was asking. So ok,  new tool ordered.

Offline JTX

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 10:34:47 am »
My guess is that it has to do with structural engineering and strength to support a 900LB gross motorcycle weight rating.




( I think the book says somewhere that anyway )






Offline rrsperry

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 11:11:14 am »
I must be one stupid mechanical engineer then...  The nut doesn't do anything other than clamp.


Anyway, why wouldn't they at least give you something in the tool kit?

Offline JTX

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 12:51:48 pm »
Cost and weight savings.  We are lucky we get what we get. 

Offline turbojoe78_MA

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2017, 02:38:26 pm »
I found a bolt with a 7/8" head on it, (5/8" I think) then found a nut that fit the bolt and welded the nut on.

The 7/8" bolt head fit right into the 22mm hex on the axle and then you just use your choice of tools on the welded on nut.

I'll try to post a picture later.
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Offline CW

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2017, 02:40:17 pm »
Spark plug socket turned backwards work?
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Offline rrsperry

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2017, 02:48:57 pm »
It's not a problem, but I've already got a metric crap ton of metric sockets...lol

I bought a ProMotion combo hex thing on Amazon, be here in the AM.. $18. No worries, I just tell the wife it's for a tool. She never argues with me on tools. (In fact she usually says, "if you want it go buy it"). It worked for the 2016 Corvette, and the Connie...

But really a 24mm nut would have killed them?  ;lol

Offline AmphibSailor

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 03:00:30 pm »
Spark plug socket turned backwards work?

Worked for me.


Try using the socket wrench and extension from the other side of the wheel.  Feed the extension through the axle to the socket.
 

If you have to use two extensions, feed the longest one through the other side and the other one from the socket side.  Try it.  You'll see that it works.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 03:09:30 pm by AmphibSailor »
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Offline smithr1

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 05:04:02 pm »
Spark plug wrench back worked for me just this weekend.
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Offline gpd323

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 02:46:14 pm »
Spark plug socket turned backwards work?

Yes the peanut spark plug socket, then stick a short extension inside the socket and attach a ratchet. You don't have to loosen the left side pinch bolts either, just unscrew the axle from the right side (right pinch bolts loose of course) and then remove the axle. Easy!
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Offline rrsperry

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 06:25:14 pm »
Well i didn't have any spark plug sockets that would fit. So I just ordered the combo tool.

Changed the stock rear BT021 out for an Angel GT A spec, installed the Vance and Hines CS ONE exhaust. Tomorrow the front tire, and fender extender. (assuming I get the combo tool today like Amazon promises..lol)

Is it spring yet?

Offline rrsperry

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 09:18:48 pm »
Ok, took off the wheel, changed the crap 021's for Angel GT's.   Back together.

Ok, those engineers should be flogged. The only good thing I can say is it's pretty easy to remove and install the brake calipers.

But the axel and "nut"? Are other Japanese bikes like that? I don't remember my VFR being so bad...

Offline seagiant1

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2017, 03:00:41 am »
Hi,
       I had a spark plug socket that worked already in my tool box! ;D

You're going to LOVE those Angels!!! :great: >:D >:D >:D
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Offline gsun

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 03:24:10 am »
I used a spark plug wrench the first time and then went to the "special" tool. It broke the second time I used it. It was aluminum. Went back to the spark plug tool. Works great!

Offline rrsperry

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 08:36:33 pm »
That's why I got the tool steel one.

Offline smithr1

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 05:24:04 pm »
I got the spark plug wrench and used it. 
I was then digging through all the stuff I bought last summer for the winter rebuild/maintenance and there was the special tool.  I must have bought it and forgot.
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Offline Steiny

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2017, 10:37:26 am »

Offline Buzzard

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2017, 03:07:48 pm »
I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2017, 10:24:36 pm »
I'm sure most of you know this, but it is a good time to review. There is a precision cut piece of metal tubing between the wheel bearings. The purpose of this tube is to keep the distance between the inner bearing races constant and correct. Over torquing the axle bolt can literally squash this tube, shortening it, resulting in stressed bearings. Most motorcycles have this set up in both wheels. I have seen a local shop use an air wrench to tighten the front axle of my friends FJR1300. I had to use an air wrench on my axle tool to loosen it. Bad.
Thank you for sharing this, and it is used as a spacer, but some of your fears are a bit incorrect,
Using an air wrench on the axle nut is over kill, for sure, I would never use a tool for install that would prevent me from disassembling the parts on the road, using normally carried hand tools.
As far as "crushing" that tubular spacer, its simply not possible to do from tightening the axle nut, no matter what tools are used, the compressive strength of that tube is about 50x stronger than any force that could be generated by the mechanical force induced by the threafs on both the axle and nut....the threads would strip well prior to crushing the tube...
As for overtightening also, please note that each bore that the bearings are seated in, have an internal lip at their base, preventing over insertion... the bearings outer race will go solid against one during install, and when the second bearing is installed on the far side, it should only be tapped in untill it "bumps" the spacer tube, and you install the circlips that retain the bearings.

I hope this simplifies the assembly a bit, for those not familiar with the design elements.

I find the torque spec on the axles, both front and rear, to be somewhat excessive, but due to liability concerns of the manufacturer, they state them as "designed loading".
I've never had issue loading the axles on any bike using a 1/2" drive wratchet wrench, and a breaker bar on the opposite side, you can generate a lot of torque with those tools, more than enough to work correctly...
I also find that the suggestion of leaving the pinch bolts on the nut side of the forks tight, to hold the nut, so you can loosen the axle bolt, puts excessive wear on the actual threads of both the nut, and the axle, as the nut is now "clamped tight" and compressed slightly... If you only have one wrench, you can leave the pinch bolts.on the head of the axle tight to hold it,nwhile removing the nut on the far end.. I lube the axle threads with anti sieze, and coat the shaft with grease, and tighten the axle and nut prior to clamping the ends tight, and that is only after spinning the wheel and clamping the brakes on a dozen times to centralize the wheel between the forks...

These are lessons gleaned from 45 years of fixing bikes, with issues that were egsacerbated by incorrect procedures.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 10:30:58 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline Gixerhp

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2017, 07:51:48 pm »
Ok, what's with the 22mm hex required for the front bolt?  That sure looks like an answer to a question nobody was asking. So ok,  new tool ordered.
They are just trying to sell Snap on tools!
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Offline gpd323

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2017, 09:24:07 pm »
I think I said a peanut spark plug socket would work, its actually the standard sized plug socket.  :beerchug:



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Offline JTX

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2017, 12:04:46 pm »
Don't forget guys, you can simply buy a single hex socket at sears for 10-15 bucks and be done with it.


I went to Northern tool and grabbed a full set of 7 sockets instead and got a nice set to keep in the tool box.


Made by Klutch and comes with a magnetic base to keep them tidy in the toolbox.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 12:14:41 pm by JTX »

Offline mattchewn

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2017, 01:03:34 pm »
so,
Does this mean we are over complaining about KiPass?    :??:    :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:       

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Offline JTX

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2017, 01:04:54 pm »
so,
Does this mean we are over complaining about KiPass?    :??:    :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:       

Matt


So far I have reserved my comments about that, but yes.  Way too much bishen about that.  Get over it.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: What were they thinking (part 2, front axel bolt)
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2017, 10:00:59 pm »
Don't forget guys, you can simply buy a single hex socket at sears for 10-15 bucks and be done with it.


I went to Northern tool and grabbed a full set of 7 sockets instead and got a nice set to keep in the tool box.


Made by Klutch and comes with a magnetic base to keep them tidy in the toolbox.

I'm all for good tools, but namebrand means nothing.... take for example those "nice" hex bits in your photo....
They may LOOK pretty, but in fact they have the major flaw I see on all of the bits sold today, when you want to use them on the Cheese steel bolts of a C14...
Look closely at how they turned a good tool, into one guranteed to round out the internal hex on the bolts, due to the massive chamfers they added to the ends of the bits... rendering them useless for getting full bite on the total depth of the socket head....

 :truce: :-X :truce: :??:

Now, take those bits to your belt sander, or bench grinder, and completely dress the ends of perpendicular to the bit, removing all the stock to get back to a point where the hex is fully hex, and the chambers are completely gone.... and you have a full hex with sharp corners that fully engage the total depth of the screws socket to prevent them from stripping out....

 :great: :great:

I've ground every hex bit I own in this manner, as one by one they all caused grief from lack of full engagement...
And NEVER use ball end hex tools to "break a bolt free", only use them to spin a loosened bolt....
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 10:04:10 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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