Author Topic: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?  (Read 12054 times)

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Offline Coldfinger

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2016, 12:52:55 pm »
The rear tire, when spinning in gear on the center stand has a 3/4" side to side wobble. We made it the 500 miles back to the border - keeping the speed under 85mph since I know little about tire construction and failure (but thoughts of Ford Explorer/ Firestone blowouts kept me from going any faster).
Once safely home, I weighed our stuff - top case, saddle bags, and all contents- just shy of 100 pounds. Me and the wife, 360 pounds. 460 pounds total, plus gas in the tank.
I can't find weight carrying capacities of the tires anywhere but it seems like we should have been OK.
The same exact failure occurred in 2014 with Avon Azaro and I found a replacement in Mexico - Pirelli Route 1 bias tire that performed flawlessly with the same weight and bad roads.
Any suggestions?????

If the rim doesn't have the side wobble, it is the tire.  Check that the tire is seated on the bead all the way around.  If the tire is seated on bead and the rim doesn't have wobble, it is the tire construction.  Make a video of it which shows the wobble and shows both the rim and tire.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2016, 11:36:48 pm »
Well... update on the Avons...
The "ball bearing dance" is either getting a little better, or I'm getting used to it, or both. I continue to like the response and how planted the feel in the corners.
Sad to say... Wed PM on  my way home I picked up a piece of glass almost exactly in the middle. I plugged it, but not very confident it will hold air... probably a new tire in my future, and I will go with the same.

Jorge

Offline Pbfoot

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2016, 12:35:53 am »
Anything in a 17 is better.
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline Greenie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2016, 04:46:00 pm »
 https://youtu.be/2o_OA8_xHnw

The rim is perfect - hardly any deflection at all. The bead looks to be uniformly seated.

Offline Greenie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2016, 05:51:32 pm »
I had the tire taken off the rim. The inside of the tire has delaminated from the carcass in a few spots in the center, about 8-10" long. Sort of like a blister worse in some spots and still attached in other parts of the tire. I mailed the tire back to Revzilla UPS $28 and spent $36 having a new tire mounted and balanced. Even if Avon gives me full credit I'm out $64. The tire is cupped at 2,800 miles (I had 41psi in the rear tire).
If I would have known how bad the tire was inside I wouldn't have ridden it as fast as I did.
Not only is the tire's construction suspect, but I doubt it will give the wear Avon claims.
I'll post again when Avon / Revzilla makes a decision.

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2016, 07:50:32 pm »
I was running an Avon Azaro 150/80 16 on the rear but the carcass went bad causing a wiggle after about 4,000 miles. Avon GAVE me a new tire and paid the tire guy - An Avon AV66 Storm 3D 150/80 ZR 16. Matched with the Michelin PR3 120/70 ZR 18 this has been one of the best combos for my C10. I like it! :)
   
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline RJSutherland

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2016, 08:07:19 pm »
Hi.

I put a matched set of 3-D XMs on my 2005 Concours just over a year ago.

At first ... the bike did the tango behind semis on the highway.  Didn't last too long.  Wondering if it was just having a lot of rubber hitting the road compared to worn out tires?

Alas, at 6,500 miles I observed the exposed steel bands on the rear tire yesterday.

I do spend a lot of time in the N GA "mountains."  I'm not disappointed and will probably re-up with another set.

Hope that helps.


RJS

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Offline Mettler1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2016, 09:37:12 pm »
   Looks like "someone" had a lot of fun. :motonoises: Glad you caught it in time!! :great:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline RJSutherland

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2016, 12:02:46 am »
Ron had a terrific insight into the wear on my tire:

"The sides are softer than the middle so it might make sense that the side went first if you ride the curves a lot."

Smart man.  My neighbor.  Oh, yeah.


RJS
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Offline Greenie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2016, 06:17:51 am »
Avon / Revzilla has agreed to refund the purchase price, I am asking for shipping and mount/dismount costs too.

Offline Speedratchet

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2016, 02:15:54 pm »
Just added a set of the new Avon's last year when they arrived in the states and I love them. My bike handles so much better than I did with the stock Dunlops (I know that's not saying much). The tires have been rock solid all the way past 100 mph, I used Avon's on my Yamaha and always got good mileage and traction. It's nice to finally have a quality tire choice for the C-10's. I wish Michelin would make a matched set for our size, that would be a great tire set!

P.S. I highly recommend a good fork brace, gold emulator valves and new springs in the forks to improve the handling.             :great:
Just remember, wherever you go, there you are!!

Offline Mettler1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2016, 04:26:15 pm »
 

P.S. I highly recommend a good fork brace, gold emulator valves and new springs in the forks to improve the handling.             :great:
[/quote]

   Me Too!!  :great: :great:
'94 Concours 115,000 miles-- 7th gear,2MM,KB fork brace,Over flowtubes,Stick coils,Tcro shifter,GPS,SiSF'sTorque cams,SPOOKFAK,block off plates, SS brake & clutch lines,KB risers, FENDA EXTENDA, emulators, SiSF carb Spa, Delkevic exhaust, Murphs' knee savers +grips, etc

Offline Greenie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2016, 06:06:06 pm »
I'll continue with my monologue. The rear tire, after it was removed from the rim was delaminating inside. I think that's a serious safety issue. The amount of wear the tire shows after 2,800 miles guarantees it won't last as long as Avon claims.
Revzilla will refund the cost of the tire but says that Avon might cover the cost of the mount & balance if I contact them. I'm out the $26 shipping. 

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2016, 12:02:41 pm »
https://youtu.be/2o_OA8_xHnw


The rim is perfect - hardly any deflection at all. The bead looks to be uniformly seated.

   Just happened to me also, on my bmw. Avon Storm 2, it ran perfectly true for about 3500 miles, great tire, then on a trip a couple weeks ago it started to get a wiggle in it. Upon inspection it had picked up the radial runout that yours exhibits, and got a strange wear pattern on the left of center side of the tire. Bad wear / cupping. Upon removal of the tire, there's rubber dust inside it, and a strange pattern developed in the center. This is the second avonstorm 2 on this bike; the first one lasted 600 miles and popped a huge egg in the middle of the tread. This was the replacement tire. So you know what I replaced this one with? A Shinko 777. I'll never run another Avon again. Avon should be ashamed to call themselves tire manufacturers. Steve
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Offline VTconnie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2016, 02:35:36 am »
https://youtu.be/2o_OA8_xHnw


The rim is perfect - hardly any deflection at all. The bead looks to be uniformly seated.

   Just happened to me also, on my bmw. Avon Storm 2, it ran perfectly true for about 3500 miles, great tire, then on a trip a couple weeks ago it started to get a wiggle in it. Upon inspection it had picked up the radial runout that yours exhibits, and got a strange wear pattern on the left of center side of the tire. Bad wear / cupping. Upon removal of the tire, there's rubber dust inside it, and a strange pattern developed in the center. This is the second avonstorm 2 on this bike; the first one lasted 600 miles and popped a huge egg in the middle of the tread. This was the replacement tire. So you know what I replaced this one with? A Shinko 777. I'll never run another Avon again. Avon should be ashamed to call themselves tire manufacturers. Steve

Phew, to hear it from Steve himself. I found myself saying the same thing for the past few years, I have only ever seen cracked/delaminated Avons. And I am on my 5th-something Shinko 777, great tire and pairs excellently with the PR2 or PR3.

 :great:
<--2003 Concours C-10 "Conifer", -AKA- The Cruise Missile
1980 CB900C DOHC "Old Iron" -AKA- The Hill Climber                

Offline smithr1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2016, 05:05:32 pm »
I am only 500-600 miles on my 3D-XMs but no problems so far EXCEPT they are no more impervious to screws.  I already have a plug in the back :(
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2016, 05:03:12 pm »
Steve before you totally bash a brand that has been good to us and the Concours over the years consider this...

1.  More Avons have gone on more Concours than any other brand is my guess.  That fact will always lead to more complaints logged and more people telling us of an issue.  My guess is the ratio of bad tire to number mounted is about the same.  My guess is all brands have issues, it is how the mfg handles it is more of an issue.  As far as I know Avon has always done their best to handle any problem.

2.  With the new softer sides on these tires and the way bikes work in general.  If you have a low pressure for long enough it could be the cause of premature wear, separation and failure.   

Can you absolutely say that the tire failures you and others have had were not due to improper inflation and were definitely at a higher failure rate than any other brand?

I am not defending Avon.  If something is wrong they need to make it right.  Steve you have a lot of power here now and flat out saying you will never WILL hurt sales.  If Avon stops supporting 16" tires then we are down to what 1-3 choices that are not even radials in most cases.  Just be sure of your data and claim before you kill a company.   
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2016, 06:29:24 pm »
My Avon rear started coming apart and I was using a TPMS system. Never low on pressure. The lowest would have been maybe 38lbs on a cool morning, as pressure changes about 1 lb psi per 6-7* F. Example would be 60* in the am w/38lbs, ride to work. Leave work in afternoon, 85* it would read 41 or 42, parked in the shade.

The tire was never run low, no repairs. It had about 2800 miles on it when replaced. I rode it for a bit in Flowriduh, rode to national in Eureka Springs, then to Minnesota. Close inspection in MN uncovered the buggered Avon. I replace tires before an extended trip for a reason, I want no drama. It cost me a day of vacation running down another tire and getting it mounted, not to mention the extra $$$.

Lots of folks run them, there are some failures.  SiSF ran one, it failed. I also had issues with Avons about 30 years ago, figured I'd try one again, it failed. Good enough of an indicator for me.

Quite a few are running Shinko with not much being heard on defects. I did have issues with out of round Shinko Gold Wing size 890Jouney in the back, Shinko was solid to deal with(refund), went back to 777, happy camper. Paired with Mich PR3 in front. Probably on my 6th or 8th set by now. I also ran several sets of Mich Pilot GT, no issues. Just Avon. They last 10-12k miles and handle, hook up, and ride quite nicely.

I've also gotten stellar service from Shinkos on my KLR, the street knobbies(700) hook up on tarmac a lot better than they have a right to.

I'll never say never, but I'll have to be very, very desperate to mount an Avon on anything I own ever again.
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2016, 06:50:42 pm »
Hi SteveJ,
Not the Steve I was addressing but...
I agree, you and a few others have had failures premature.  You have every right to feel the way you do.  I still say if you don't know the failure rate is worse than other brands you are tossing an option on minimum data.  If you want more data than ask how many people have run sets of Avon's with no problems.  I know I am on set 10 with no issues.  Sure they ware fast but they also stop fast and corner fast and are safer because of it.
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2016, 09:03:59 pm »
Hi SteveJ,
Not the Steve I was addressing but...
I agree, you and a few others have had failures premature.  You have every right to feel the way you do.  I still say if you don't know the failure rate is worse than other brands you are tossing an option on minimum data.  If you want more data than ask how many people have run sets of Avon's with no problems.  I know I am on set 10 with no issues.  Sure they ware fast but they also stop fast and corner fast and are safer because of it.

That's good.

I don't want this to delve into a tire war and just go on and on with it. Kinda like Trup/anti Trump. All the arguing in the world will change virtually no one's mind.

I'm glad that you are having success with Avons. I was just stating my position and feelings. No big deal as there are choices. He!!, I even had a 15" car tire on the back of a single cam 750 Honda. Actually did a lot of traveling with that bike. Seemed to work OK, I guess. I bought it that way. The PO laced on a 15" wheel and put a tire the same size as the old VW Beetles used on it.

Stay dry over there.

 :beerchug:
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
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Offline VTconnie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2016, 03:01:11 am »
In my 8 or 9 years of motorcycling I have never seen a tire just fall apart like I have seen pair of Avons do on my original Concours. The PO noticed it during the sale and was like "Oh $hit! Those are less than a year old! i'll take it back to the tire place here in town."

Well I had to buy new tires for the bike while the tire shop sent the old ones back. You can imagine the plethora of choices for stock C10 rim sizes, Metzler 880's lasted for like 20K, but grippy they are not. Several months later I got $150 from Avon through the tire place. It could have been more, that the tire place pilfered some of? who knows, it was after all Henderson, NV.

The 03' I have now had Avons on the rims, they were getting towards the end of their wear and I rode them until the rear got a big puncture. Handled ok, can't judge them fairly since they were almost worn out. Tread was slightly dry rotted, unsure of the tire age but the PO was maintenance ana1 and I don't think they were more than a few years old.

So it is just a coincidence that the only Avon tires I have ever owned were cracking apart. People seem to love their performance but i'll stick with my 777/PR3
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Offline rabbott5

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2016, 03:46:16 am »
I've only put about 6k on the tires so far.  They handle very well warm or cold. I will never run GL1500 tires or any other bias tire again. While they last longer than previous C10 tires, they handle for crap. The Storm/Azaro was pretty good.  These by far seem to be the best combo I've used.  Even at 6k, if I had to replace the tires soon. I would run them again.  I did one trip on challenging roads with bias tires, I hated how she felt between my legs.

Offline Greenie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2016, 08:01:25 am »
I've had two Avon Storms go bad on me - the first at 1,000 miles, the second at 2,000 miles. Maybe they don't like loads and are OK running around solo, but there's definitely a problem with the way that these tires are constructed. I won't ever trust them again.
I've owned motorcycles since 1980 and never had any tire issues until these Avons.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 10:16:58 am by Greenie »

Offline smithr1

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2016, 04:32:30 pm »
Why do you guys keep talking about long ago Storms and Azaros on a thread for 3D-XMs?  It is really not helping us know more about the tyre in question.

PS:  If you do not let Avon(or any company) know about a problem and let them fix it best they can than all you are doing is hurting them, yourself and every other person needing the product.
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Offline Greenie

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Re: Avon Storm 3D X-M radials -- any experience?
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2016, 08:30:47 pm »
"Why do you guys keep talking about long ago Storms and Azaros on a thread for 3D-XMs?  It is really not helping us know more about the tyre in question."

My last Avon failure was the 3D X-M; that's what I'm talking about. What's more I did let Avon know about both failures. They refunded the tire and I'm waiting for them to refund the mount/Balance and shipping.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 09:07:19 pm by Greenie »