Author Topic: Brake conversion food for thought  (Read 18730 times)

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Offline AirMonger

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Brake conversion food for thought
« on: January 12, 2015, 09:41:55 pm »
Just talking to another C10 owner about brake upgrades. He mentioned that he would like to do it but seems every time he looks for Tokico calipers they are either junk or overpriced. He found a adaptor to put R1 mono blocks a SV650. Just putting this out there to see what other owners think. The flip side of this is cheap calipers but heavy initial investment for the mount/adapters from my stand point. Any real advantage? Probably not, but it would be different.           

 www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=SV650+Versys+ER6+V+strom+DL+Caliper
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 11:41:41 pm »
Air,
  I will soon have a set of clean Tokico calipers and adaptor brackets (for stock rotors) for sale as soon as I get my new brake setup finished. tell your friend to PM me sometime.
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Offline AirMonger

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2015, 02:08:40 am »
Jim, I will let him know. I have no idea what his future plans might be. He works in the oil patch and I could hear his knees knocking over the phone. He is already sweating things.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 04:25:48 am »
Jim, I will let him know. I have no idea what his future plans might be. He works in the oil patch and I could hear his knees knocking over the phone. He is already sweating things.

I know the feeling. I work for an oil & gas pipe manufacturing/supply company so I know all about what you're saying.
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Offline wahrsuul

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 10:15:07 am »
Are these for a pre 93 or post 94?
1999 C10

Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2015, 06:08:10 pm »
Are these for a pre 93 or post 94?

The ones I have are for post 94.
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2015, 08:06:46 pm »
Are these for a pre 93 or post 94?

The eBay brackets are a potential option for the post 93.  Since some have successfully use caliper brackets for an SV650/ DL650 to adapt Tokico and Nissin calipers to their post 93 bikes, there is a very good possibility that the radial caliper brackets would work also.  One advantage with radial calipers is that it is easy to fit larger rotors; it just requires some spacers at the caliper mounting bolts.  Presumably these would work with stock rotors, so the owner could run the rotors they already have and upgrade in the future.  The 108 mm radial calipers can be had fairly cheaply compared to the older side mount Tokicos and Nissin calipers so the extra cost for the adapters could be offset somewhat.
Gary F.

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Offline AirMonger

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 10:17:06 pm »
Pretty much what I was thinking and if I ever get back to work (union lockout) I think I might just play around with it. I have the large 320mm rotors and I think it would work with a little effort. I looked at these before and it seems as though this guy periodically turns these out for ZRX and ZX11 binders. Like I said, just food for thought.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 01:25:31 am »
Gary, are you talking about radial caliper brackets for a SV/DL. ?
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 02:52:56 am »
Gary, are you talking about radial caliper brackets for a SV/DL. ?


Yes, Airmonger's eBay link has a vendor selling brackets to adapt radial calipers to SV's and DL's, among other bikes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Versys-ER6-V-strom-DL-650-1000-Z750-Caliper-Nissin-Tokico-Bracket-108mm-/321623234788?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ae23d18e4
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2015, 04:15:42 am »
I love my radials.  They clamp. From a ZX14.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2015, 04:46:53 am »
GF, which one of the brackets would one order for a 2002 Connie? The had choice of Versez, SV, or DL.
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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2015, 02:18:22 pm »
I can speak directly on this topic and I agree completely. I watched Ebay for over a month waiting for the right Nissin's. I finally found a pair of gold calipers in mint condition with brand new pads for $60 for the set shipped. They're out there, you just have to be patient. Fortunately, this model of caliper is VERY common so patience will pay off.

So my whole project consisted of:
Nissin Calipers with included new pads
SVRP Brake adapters
Replacement stainless bolts from Fastenal (The brake adapter is for a Suzuki. All the hole's line up but the bolts weren't long enough.)
Stainless washers as spacers (I think I used 28 total for both sides)
Converted 3 line factory brake lines to Galfer braided steel 2 line (uses double banjo bolt at the reservoir - included with lines.)

Total project came in at $150ish. I'm still using the factory rotors. They're still within factory specs and aftermarket rotors are EXPENSIVE.

Now the $64,000 question... Does this upgrade make a difference? IMHO, Hell yeah it makes a HUGE difference. My motivation for this project was the inconsistent brake pull. Meaning, When you first pull on the brakes, the lever pulls closer to the handle bars then in subsequent pulls. I spoke to SISF about this and he fought the same problem. What we determined was happening was on the factory brake, the piston pressure is slowly relieved and the piston pulls back ever so slightly. So that first pull feels mushy. Then if you pull again quickly, they feel stiff. Wait a few minutes then the pull is mushy again.

So some had said that just switching to the braided lines would solve this problems. Others had said it didn't make a difference. So consulting with SISF, his experience was the only way to get a stiff brake with a consistent pull is to move from the 2 pots to the 4 pots. So that's what I did.

I am very pleased with this upgrade. It's tremendous bang for the buck. Better brake feel, consistent every time, and best of all, more confidence with your Connie.

I have part numbers for all this stuff if needed. I'm at work now so could dig for it if needed. Here is a pic of what this upgrade may look like. :)
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2015, 03:33:30 pm »
GF, which one of the brackets would one order for a 2002 Connie? The had choice of Versez, SV, or DL.

Jim, you would order the ones for an SV650 or DL.  Based on what is needed to make the SVracing brackets work, you would most likely have to shim the bracket to the inside to get the caliper to align properly.  Are you thinking of trying them out?

HTH,
Gary F.

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Offline Trapshooter2

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2015, 03:52:35 pm »
I can speak directly on this topic and I agree completely. I watched Ebay for over a month waiting for the right Nissin's. I finally found a pair of gold calipers in mint condition with brand new pads for $60 for the set shipped. They're out there, you just have to be patient. Fortunately, this model of caliper is VERY common so patience will pay off.

So my whole project consisted of:
Nissin Calipers with included new pads
SVRP Brake adapters
Replacement stainless bolts from Fastenal (The brake adapter is for a Suzuki. All the hole's line up but the bolts weren't long enough.)
Stainless washers as spacers (I think I used 28 total for both sides)
Converted 3 line factory brake lines to Galfer braided steel 2 line (uses double banjo bolt at the reservoir - included with lines.)

Total project came in at $150ish. I'm still using the factory rotors. They're still within factory specs and aftermarket rotors are EXPENSIVE.

Now the $64,000 question... Does this upgrade make a difference? IMHO, Hell yeah it makes a HUGE difference. My motivation for this project was the inconsistent brake pull. Meaning, When you first pull on the brakes, the lever pulls closer to the handle bars then in subsequent pulls. I spoke to SISF about this and he fought the same problem. What we determined was happening was on the factory brake, the piston pressure is slowly relieved and the piston pulls back ever so slightly. So that first pull feels mushy. Then if you pull again quickly, they feel stiff. Wait a few minutes then the pull is mushy again.

So some had said that just switching to the braided lines would solve this problems. Others had said it didn't make a difference. So consulting with SISF, his experience was the only way to get a stiff brake with a consistent pull is to move from the 2 pots to the 4 pots. So that's what I did.

I am very pleased with this upgrade. It's tremendous bang for the buck. Better brake feel, consistent every time, and best of all, more confidence with your Connie.

I have part numbers for all this stuff if needed. I'm at work now so could dig for it if needed. Here is a pic of what this upgrade may look like. :)

Hazy,

It would be awesome if you could post the part numbers as I am wanting to make the change to my '98 C10.

Appreciate the help.

Trap
1998 ZG1000 (aka: The Green Hornet)

Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2015, 04:09:54 pm »
After looking some more at the pictures of the brackets, I don't think it would be necessary to shim the brackets as I stated before.  The SVracing brackets mount to the outside of the caliper mount tabs, so shimming is necessary because the C10 tabs are thicker than on an SV or DL.  The eBay radial caliper adapters appear to mount to the inside of the caliper tabs, so the alignment should be the same.
Gary F.

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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2015, 06:11:18 pm »
TrapShooter2,

I got that written up somewhere. I'll dig for the details and post. Will either be today or tomorrow.
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Offline connie_rider

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2015, 07:08:32 pm »
Hazy, you did not mention in your total cost) that you went to the bigger Rotors. (320)
So, I assume your bike (like Mine) have the 4 pot calipers and stock Connie Rotors?

3 thoughts: * The Nissin Calipers (in Hazy's photo) and the Tokico's are exactly the same calipers dimensionally..
                  * When I was searching for Calipers, I discovered that the same calipers are on certain Suzuki's and (on Ebay) the Suzuki
                        Calipers are being sold for far less $$. (Have no idea why)
                  * Gary and Jim are talking about adapting Radial Calipers to the Connie. Hazy is adapting regular calipers,
                       and Rev is talking about an entire front end swap.

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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2015, 07:54:32 pm »
Hazy, you did not mention in your total cost) that you went to the bigger Rotors. (320)
So, I assume your bike (like Mine) have the 4 pot calipers and stock Connie Rotors?

3 thoughts: * The Nissin Calipers (in Hazy's photo) and the Tokico's are exactly the same calipers dimensionally..
                  * When I was searching for Calipers, I discovered that the same calipers are on certain Suzuki's and (on Ebay) the Suzuki
                        Calipers are being sold for far less $$. (Have no idea why)
                  * Gary and Jim are talking about adapting Radial Calipers to the Connie. Hazy is adapting regular calipers,
                       and Rev is talking about an entire front end swap.

Ride safe, Ted

I did not mention switching to the 320's because I didn't. I did mention that I kept the factory rotors because new rotors are expensive and my factory ones are still factory spec and in good condition.

I'm perfectly happy with the setup I've put in place. Is the 320 setup better? Could be. IMHO, my solution is the lowest cost with the biggest bang for the buck. I'm trying to stay within the Connie tradition of being as cost effective (cheap) as possible.  :great:
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Offline AirMonger

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 01:56:24 am »
And the bottom line here is the four pots are a tremendous improvement over the OEM calipers. I initially did Brian's (2fast) brake upgrade on my pre 93 and it simply overwhelmed that skimpy front tire. It was awesome.

When I bought my 06 and took it out on its maiden run, I felt like someone had substituted wooden planks for the brake pads on the stock set up. It was down right scary in its lack of stopping power compared to Brian's set up.

With the upgrade on my 06 consisting of four pots and 320mm rotors along with the combination of 17" wheels and modern premium rubber, I felt as thought I could exploit the best stopping power available. The brakes and Pr3's overwhelm the forks and chassis now. Am I satisfied? Heck ya! 

Is there room for improvement. Always
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2015, 04:32:38 am »
GF, which one of the brackets would one order for a 2002 Connie? The had choice of Versez, SV, or DL.

Jim, you would order the ones for an SV650 or DL.  Based on what is needed to make the SVracing brackets work, you would most likely have to shim the bracket to the inside to get the caliper to align properly.  Are you thinking of trying them out?

HTH,
Yes I would like to try them. I am already running radial calipers on my 02 but they are on homemade brackets I made from aluminum angle. As soon as I am sure which ones to order I may pull the trigger on them.
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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2015, 07:14:28 am »
The difference between the Tokico and the Nissin are the size of the pistons. The Nissin, having larger pistons, got the nod from me. The pistons were stainless as is it turned out.
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2015, 02:16:32 pm »
GF, which one of the brackets would one order for a 2002 Connie? The had choice of Versez, SV, or DL.

Jim, you would order the ones for an SV650 or DL.  Based on what is needed to make the SVracing brackets work, you would most likely have to shim the bracket to the inside to get the caliper to align properly.  Are you thinking of trying them out?

HTH,
Yes I would like to try them. I am already running radial calipers on my 02 but they are on homemade brackets I made from aluminum angle. As soon as I am sure which ones to order I may pull the trigger on them.

Jim, the ad is a little confusing.  If I were going to try this I would contact the seller to make sure that these will work on an SV/ DL.  If he confirms that, then order the brackets for an SV650 or DL (it doesn't matter which, they use the same OEM caliper).  The issue with 10 mm vs 8 mm bolts I believe is only for the Versys and Z750.  It shouldn't matter for the SV adapters since they will all be 10 mm, like the C10.  He also requests that you tell him which calipers you are using, though elsewhere in the ad he says they will work for any caliper with 108 mm bolt spacing.  Good luck and be sure to let us know how it works out.
Gary F.

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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2015, 02:26:37 pm »
The difference between the Tokico and the Nissin are the size of the pistons. The Nissin, having larger pistons, got the nod from me. The pistons were stainless as is it turned out.

Like Tokico, Nissin calipers vary in piston size, so some have larger pistons than Tokicos while others are basically the same size.  The largest pistons can be found in Nissin calipers from a CBR 600 F4 or CBR900RR, which I suspect is what you have.  I have some of these that I will be swapping with the Tokicos I am currently running.  I am also pretty sure the Nissin's have a slightly different offset than the Tokicos, which is why SVracing has different adapters depending on the brand of caliper.  I will be confirming that when I swap calipers.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 03:05:20 pm by GF-in-CA »
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Offline RodWpg

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2015, 02:38:54 pm »
Just speaking for myself.......after putting decent brake shoes and upgrading the front and rear suspension my braking was waaaaaay better. So much so that I think there is no need for upgrading brakes. Maybe I'm getting slower with age too. ::)
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