Author Topic: Brake conversion food for thought  (Read 18704 times)

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Offline Daytona_Mike

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2015, 02:54:21 pm »
Just speaking for myself.......after putting decent brake shoes and upgrading the front and rear suspension my braking was waaaaaay better. So much so that I think there is no need for upgrading brakes. Maybe I'm getting slower with age too. ::)
Me too.New SS lines HH pads.. waaaay better too.  Then I had some hard  panic stops ( you know- people pulling out in front of you- stuff falling off the back of pickup trucks) and no way would the bike stop in time.
So I upgraded to   320mm rotors and 4 pot  Nissans.  It is not waaay better than what you have. It is totally awesome!!!! Like night and day. As good as or better than modern brakes on newer bikes like the C14.

I used to live in Winnipeg.  Brrrr!!  I moved to Florida. Funny thing- it is flat here too.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 02:59:05 pm by Daytona_Mike »
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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2015, 05:27:36 pm »
Ok kids... here is my parts list for my upgrade...

2 - Front Nissin brake calipers off a 2001 Honda RC51 from Ebay - $60 shipped
1 - DL650 brake caliper adapter kit from SVRP (http://www.svracingparts.com/store/#!/DL650-Brake-Caliper-Adapter-Brackets/p/10245069) - $85 Shipped
**NOTE** - The SVRP link has the list of bikes you can use the brakes off of.
5 - M10X50 Socket Head Cap Screw PT Stainless Steel from www.mrmetric.com
5 - M8X40 Socket Head Cap Screw PT Stainless Steel from www.mrmetric.com
2 - M10X1.5 Hex Nut Steel 8 Zinc from www.mrmetric.com
2 - M8X1.25 Hex Nut Cl.6 Steel Zinc
**NOTE** - The nuts are not needed for the bike. You have to cut the bolts down a little bit and I used the nuts as a dremel rest to position where I needed to cut and to clean up the bolt threads when I removed the nuts.) Also, you only need 4 bolts. I bought extra just in case.Total cost of Mr. Metric order - $20.31 shipped
1 - 87-05 Kawasaki ZG1000 Concours Galfer Front Brake Lines Clear from Ebay - $53.06 shipped (http://www.ebay.com/itm/87-05-Kawasaki-ZG1000-Concours-Galfer-Front-Brake-Lines-Clear-FK003D106-2-/310843043737?viewitem=&vxp=mtr&item=310843043737&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3AOC%3AUS%3A3160&nma=true&si=6DLqi3%252B6WvXNjjf8VObbfFnW2WU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

Total Project Cost - $218.37

If you live near the Cincinnati area, let's setup a time and we can do it together. :)

Almost forgot - Used 7 washers per bolt (total 28) to shim the caliper on the adapter. This aligns the caliper to the rotor. Sorry for the oversight. Add another $3 bucks or so to the overall cost. Got the washers at Home Depot.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 08:02:17 pm by Hazy »
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2015, 07:16:51 pm »
Now THERE'S a complete shopping list and a willing partner in crime to do the deed wit.  Good on a Hazy.  Now stoppit.  I mean wit the brakes.  :great:
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2015, 07:53:27 pm »
Hazy, did you not need to shim the calipers?
Gary F.

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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2015, 08:04:14 pm »
Revvy - Thank you very much for the kind words. Coming from you that really means a lot to me.  :great:

GF-in-CA - OOOPS! I forgot that little detail.  :-[ I updated my post above with said shims. This adds about $3.00 more to the overall cost.
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Offline Trapshooter2

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2015, 10:58:24 pm »
Ok kids... here is my parts list for my upgrade...

2 - Front Nissin brake calipers off a 2001 Honda RC51 from Ebay - $60 shipped
1 - DL650 brake caliper adapter kit from SVRP (http://www.svracingparts.com/store/#!/DL650-Brake-Caliper-Adapter-Brackets/p/10245069) - $85 Shipped
**NOTE** - The SVRP link has the list of bikes you can use the brakes off of.
5 - M10X50 Socket Head Cap Screw PT Stainless Steel from www.mrmetric.com
5 - M8X40 Socket Head Cap Screw PT Stainless Steel from www.mrmetric.com
2 - M10X1.5 Hex Nut Steel 8 Zinc from www.mrmetric.com
2 - M8X1.25 Hex Nut Cl.6 Steel Zinc
**NOTE** - The nuts are not needed for the bike. You have to cut the bolts down a little bit and I used the nuts as a dremel rest to position where I needed to cut and to clean up the bolt threads when I removed the nuts.) Also, you only need 4 bolts. I bought extra just in case.Total cost of Mr. Metric order - $20.31 shipped
1 - 87-05 Kawasaki ZG1000 Concours Galfer Front Brake Lines Clear from Ebay - $53.06 shipped (http://www.ebay.com/itm/87-05-Kawasaki-ZG1000-Concours-Galfer-Front-Brake-Lines-Clear-FK003D106-2-/310843043737?viewitem=&vxp=mtr&item=310843043737&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3AOC%3AUS%3A3160&nma=true&si=6DLqi3%252B6WvXNjjf8VObbfFnW2WU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)

Total Project Cost - $218.37

If you live near the Cincinnati area, let's setup a time and we can do it together. :)

Almost forgot - Used 7 washers per bolt (total 28) to shim the caliper on the adapter. This aligns the caliper to the rotor. Sorry for the oversight. Add another $3 bucks or so to the overall cost. Got the washers at Home Depot.


Hazy,

Thanks a TON for posting all of this!! Can't wait to get this done on my C10 as I have not been happy with the brakes.

Thanks again  :great:  :beerchug:

Trapshooter
1998 ZG1000 (aka: The Green Hornet)

Offline Pbfoot

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2015, 03:44:31 am »
There was not a lot of room for error in shimming the caliper to the bracket . I ended up making some 9mm long spacers out of grade 5 titanium. Outside diameter  .712, inside .316, length .354. On the adapter to forks the length of bolt needed is 42mm.  I used 45mm long and used some washers to take up the difference. A word of caution; On the top bolt a little sticking through the nut is ok, however on the bottom , the rotor sleeves will contact the bolt if you are not careful, so please rotate the wheel by hand to make sure everything clears first.
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2015, 03:49:02 am »
Hazy, Pbfoot, that's some great information  :great:  It sounds like it might be time for someone (hint, hint) to write a tech article on mounting the SVracing adapters.   ;)
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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2015, 05:38:30 pm »
Hazy, Pbfoot, that's some great information  :great:  It sounds like it might be time for someone (hint, hint) to write a tech article on mounting the SVracing adapters.   ;)

Yeah, I need to do this. As much as COGnation has helped me in all my projects, it's time for me to give back.  I think I took pics of the install. I'll go through my notes and start putting an article together. I probably won't start until Februaryish cuz of obligations.
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Offline Pbfoot

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2015, 12:13:57 am »
Just realized that the post was about radial brake conversion. I think it would be too much extra weight with not much more benefit in braking, especially with stock wheels.
If you don't have time to do it right, when do you have time to do it over.                                                                17" wheels, Nissin 4 piston calipers.1kg Sonic Springs.Cartridge Fork Emulators. KB Brace. Galfer brake lines  Free power mod.

Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2015, 12:37:39 am »
Just realized that the post was about radial brake conversion. I think it would be too much extra weight with not much more benefit in braking, especially with stock wheels.

I already have radial calipers on my C-10 and they are great. I am running 320mm rotors also.
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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2015, 02:55:52 pm »
My conversion retains the stock rotors. Braking is greatly improved as well as keeping costs down. Keeping inline with the COG creed.  :)
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2015, 04:28:00 pm »
Just realized that the post was about radial brake conversion. I think it would be too much extra weight with not much more benefit in braking, especially with stock wheels.

I already have radial calipers on my C-10 and they are great. I am running 320mm rotors also.
Me too.  1 finger braking is the norm.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2015, 04:58:30 pm »
Ok I have another question about the radial caliper brackets on the ebay ad. Are they for stock rotors or 320mm rotors. I was fixing to order a set to try them and got to thinkin I have 320 rotors.
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Offline AirMonger

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2015, 09:21:58 pm »
Jim, if you have 320mm rotors you can simply shim the caliper to center the pads on the rotor. By installing the shims between the caliper and the mount you will move the caliper outwards. It should not be any problem. I am considering the same thing. I like the idea of picking up newer calipers for 40.00 and under.
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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2015, 11:02:23 pm »
I'm your huckleberry. I pulled the trigger on the required parts and I will keep everyone informed of the radial caliper conversion utilizing this set up from trc0928 on eBay. If you check his sellers store you will see that he has some pretty cool brake upgrade parts for older bikes. Not to mention the fork upgrades that are popular for C10's.

Ok, bottom line. I would not have done this but I have managed to get rid of a bunch of Kawasaki and BMW parts on eBay. This is a "free" upgrade by selling parts I no longer had a need for.

+ I really want to see how this is going to pan out as far as cost are concerned.

Tokico CBR 600 Radial Calipers 39.40 (came from a Texas seller so I paid 3.29 sales tax)
SV 650 Radial Brake Mounts (eBay as discussed in the beginning of the thread) 154.99 with shipping.
Total cost so far 194.39. About the same as my 4 pot Tokico upgrade if I include the two different sets of pads that I tried.
This will be offset by the sale of the present setup. I expect this to be a knock 50.00 of the total investment after it is all said and done.
For around 150.00 for state of the art brakes? Easy pill to swallow.
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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2015, 12:56:32 am »
Purchased caliper bracket at roughly 5:30 PM Central time. Received shipped notification from seller at 7:39PM Central time . How true this is we will never know, the response was pretty cool.
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Offline Jim Snyder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2015, 01:56:19 am »
Jim, if you have 320mm rotors you can simply shim the caliper to center the pads on the rotor. By installing the shims between the caliper and the mount you will move the caliper outwards. It should not be any problem. I am considering the same thing. I like the idea of picking up newer calipers for 40.00 and under.

Ok thanks. yeah I got my Tokico radial calipers on ebay for $35. They were off of a newer model ZX.
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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2015, 02:51:13 pm »
I'm confused. Are we talking about the same upgrade that I did? What do we mean by 'radial calipers'? Are the Nissin's that I installed 'radial calipers'?
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2015, 02:56:22 pm »
No, yours are known as conventional or side mount calipers.  Radial calipers have the mounting bolts parallel to the brake rotor.  Radial calipers tend to be stiffer, plus when they're mounted as intended they help to minimize flexing of the forks due to brake forces.



HTH,
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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2015, 03:13:51 pm »
Just a question, and sorry if it's off topic. From what I am reading. this mod is being looked at because the current mod is getting expensive and/or harder due to the current price and supply of the calipers used. And I am sure the radial caliper brackets and calipers will deliver exception breaking.  However, won't the true benefits of a radial caliper such as used on the ZX14 fork swap be negated by using a bracket bolted on to the old style mounts?  While much better than stock, I would think they wouldn't compare to a fork designed for those calipers. NOT saying the swap won't work and be VERY beneficial! Just an "out loud" thought.
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Offline Hazy

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2015, 03:17:26 pm »
Great diagram. That clears that up. Now my next question... Can you do the radial brake conversion and still retain the factory rotors? If not, then ur looking at a very expensive upgrade.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2015, 03:37:31 pm »
Just a question, and sorry if it's off topic. From what I am reading. this mod is being looked at because the current mod is getting expensive and/or harder due to the current price and supply of the calipers used. And I am sure the radial caliper brackets and calipers will deliver exception breaking.  However, won't the true benefits of a radial caliper such as used on the ZX14 fork swap be negated by using a bracket bolted on to the old style mounts?  While much better than stock, I would think they wouldn't compare to a fork designed for those calipers. NOT saying the swap won't work and be VERY beneficial! Just an "out loud" thought.

Basically, the brackets take a radial caliper and convert it to a conventional attachment.  Yes, there is bound to be some loss of the mounting rigidity that makes the radial design "better."  However, you are still getting a modern, possibly superior functioning caliper to boot.  So, there will be an improvement over stock, but maybe not so much over the other Nissan or Tokico conversions going on.  Providing clamping specs are the same and if the mounting attachment is really flex free, then one caliper design is pretty much as good as another I would think.

EDIT TO ADD:  Just looking at the illustrations above one can see how the radial caliper's attachment is at either end and broader based than the conventionally attached caliper that has a narrower mounting point.  This, IMHO, is one of the radial caliper's biggest differences.  Both styles deliver all of the forces to the fork leg, but the conventional style might at least SEEM to be more subject to deflection, chatter, and flex from toe to heel.   
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 03:44:43 pm by Rev Ryder »
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2015, 05:11:21 pm »
Great diagram. That clears that up. Now my next question... Can you do the radial brake conversion and still retain the factory rotors? If not, then ur looking at a very expensive upgrade.

Based on the success of the SVracing brackets, the radial adapter brackets should allow you to use the stock rotors.  The pad sizes for the radial calipers are roughly the same as the Nissins and Tokicos, so there will most likely be the same issues with pad coverage, e.g. wearing away of some of the painted area on the stock rotors.
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Re: Brake conversion food for thought
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2015, 09:43:59 pm »
One of the perks of the radial caliper bracket is the ability to upgrade the stock diameter rotor at a later date without having to purchase yet another bracket. You would simply move the caliper outboard with the appropriate spacers to compensate for the increase in diameter. From experience I know that the Chinese rotor prices have fallen, and in fact make them a attractive replacement alternative. Wouldn't it be nice to know that you could take full advantage of larger rotors without having to spend additional money on the mount brackets? I am very happy with my present set up, I just like the idea of having a viable alternative. Now if someone would invent ABS that comes in a brake fluid bottle I would really be happy!
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