Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Tires/Suspension C10 => Topic started by: Wingedspirit on December 29, 2017, 11:21:03 pm

Title: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on December 29, 2017, 11:21:03 pm
Has anyone tried to put one on a C10? 
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: gPink on December 29, 2017, 11:46:39 pm
Why?
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on December 29, 2017, 11:57:11 pm
Why?

I knew someone would ask that!   :-[   because a C14 wheel will fit on it!  :)
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jim Snyder on December 30, 2017, 02:55:47 am
Just do the mean streak conversion.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: gPink on December 30, 2017, 02:03:20 pm
Why?

I knew someone would ask that!   :-[   because a C14 wheel will fit on it!  :)
:) It had to be asked.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: CRocker on December 30, 2017, 08:41:14 pm
Never considered it since the wheels wouldn’t match...
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: connie_rider on December 30, 2017, 09:19:26 pm
He actually might have a good idea.
Stranger things have happened..
If it fits, I suspect the rocker and shock would also have to fit to keep the suspension ratio's correct.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: CRocker on December 30, 2017, 10:13:35 pm
Well, many have adapted a C-14 shock to the C-10...so, I guess the width of the front of the swingarm would be next...heck, I guess my wheels don't match either... :-[
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jim Snyder on December 30, 2017, 11:14:02 pm
Well, many have adapted a C-14 shock to the C-10...so, I guess the width of the front of the swingarm would be next...heck, I guess my wheels don't match either... :-[

Yeah but your wheels are beautiful and they handle like a dream  !!!!
Other factors would be involved with the C-14 swimgarm would be the drive shaft and front coupling assembly.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: CRocker on December 30, 2017, 11:35:33 pm
Yeah...I think there are a lot of reasons not to try it...but, anything’s possible with enough money...and, as cheap as C-14s are...one would have to wonder...
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jorge on December 31, 2017, 06:19:45 pm
Intriguing...
If width is same, or close enough to adapt, the frame would need additional mods.
The C10 swingarm only has one U-joint, where the C14 has two, one near transmission, one near the hub. The C14 swingarm has extra pivots and links to eliminate shaft-jacking effect, the recipient bike would need strong support points for the links to attach.

If you decide to try it, please take lots of photos, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see it.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on December 31, 2017, 09:58:31 pm
Thanks everyone for your input.  Yes, the measurements would have to be considered very carefully.
The swing arms are available cheaply. I haven't had much chance to do the comparison but wanted to know if it had been done.
Here is an example of what I've done with my Dad. It's an AMC Spirit. It's not a bike but a lot of engineering went into it.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jorge on December 31, 2017, 10:35:32 pm
NO WAY!!!
I don't remember any AMC Spirit looking like that. I mean, they weren't a particularly ugly car for the time, maybe even ampng the nicer looking ones, especially the 4x4, but not this...
What's the mechanicals look like?
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 01, 2018, 01:23:35 am
It's rear wheel drive with an AMC 401 engine. Over 800HP.  I've had lots of guys over the years say it couldn't be done... But we did.

Now let's get a closer look at those swing arm dimensions!



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYBaOU6vMsF7Rlaz5xRUJHA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYBaOU6vMsF7Rlaz5xRUJHA)
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jorge on January 01, 2018, 04:20:04 pm
So to bring it around to the original topic... and tying in the "slightly modified" AMC Spirit... it's likely you will not be put off by the required frame modifications  :great:
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: connie_rider on January 01, 2018, 04:35:05 pm
I just looked at ZG-1400 and ZG-1000 swingarm's on Ebay.
The driveshaft is not arranged the same.
   The 1000 is at/inside the pivot of the swingarm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-94-06-KAWASAKI-ZG1000-ZG-1000-CONCOURS-SWINGARM-DIFFERENTIAL-FINAL-DRIVE/322953301253?hash=item4b31844d05:g:n6YAAOSwHYpaPWMz&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-94-06-KAWASAKI-ZG1000-ZG-1000-CONCOURS-SWINGARM-DIFFERENTIAL-FINAL-DRIVE/322953301253?hash=item4b31844d05:g:n6YAAOSwHYpaPWMz&vxp=mtr)

   The 1400 is above and outside the pivot of the swingarm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Kawasaki-ZG14-ZG1400-Concours-Rear-Swingarm-Differential-End-Bra-08-14-K020/262494799314?hash=item3d1de8c5d2:g:UdcAAOSwbYZXa4wu&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Kawasaki-ZG14-ZG1400-Concours-Rear-Swingarm-Differential-End-Bra-08-14-K020/262494799314?hash=item3d1de8c5d2:g:UdcAAOSwbYZXa4wu&vxp=mtr)

I think your looking at some major surgery to make this work!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 02, 2018, 11:07:18 am
Thanks Connie Rider. I've been looking at that too. Not a bolt on for sure.
Thought the project was interesting and wondered what thoughts were out there.  :beerchug:


Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: connie_rider on January 02, 2018, 04:01:17 pm
{I love a project; If someone tells me, that's impossible, or you can't do that... I double my efforts..  >:D}

I don't want to be the naysayer..
Trying to discuss your idea, not kill it...

After looking closely, I just realized the pivot bearing (left side) on both swing arms is inside the driveshaft.
and,, I think the driveshaft/engine coupling "has" to be directly forward of the pivot point.
 ie; {The curvature of the C-14 swingarm makes it look really off, but the driveshaft alignment may not be as bad as it appears.}

Bottom line..     Measurement's/fitting is the only way to determine if it's possible.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 02, 2018, 10:22:50 pm
{I love a project; If someone tells me, that's impossible, or you can't do that... I double my efforts..  >:D}

I don't want to be the naysayer..
Trying to discuss your idea, not kill it...

After looking closely, I just realized the pivot bearing (left side) on both swing arms is inside the driveshaft.
and,, I think the driveshaft/engine coupling "has" to be directly forward of the pivot point.
 ie; {The curvature of the C-14 swingarm makes it look really off, but the driveshaft alignment may not be as bad as it appears.}

Bottom line..     Measurement's/fitting is the only way to determine if it's possible.

Ride safe, Ted

Thanks Ted, I'm like that too.
No worries, never thought anyone was trying to kill the idea.  A swing arm needs to be available to measure and size up.  >:D
I'm really wrestling with it because of time limits but that might just happen soon!
Could always put it away until time permits.
Thanks for your assessment!
Dean
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jorge on January 02, 2018, 11:56:59 pm
Ted,
I think you're right (I cannot believe I just agreed with you :-[ :-[ :-[)
I think the forward U-joint has to be in a vertical line between the two forward pivots, to keep the joint from being pulled apart or compressed.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 03, 2018, 02:34:49 am
We're going to find out guys.

I just could not resist the experiment. I'll get a donor bare frame for mock up too.



Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: CRocker on January 03, 2018, 02:41:28 am
Oh Boy!!!!   ;D

No...wait!  I don't have the money for this... :))
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 03, 2018, 02:58:11 am
Oh Boy!!!!   ;D

No...wait!  I don't have the money for this... :))


But wait... I do!  :)
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: CRocker on January 03, 2018, 04:06:50 am
Cool...then I’ll watch!
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: jacksdad on January 03, 2018, 05:46:58 pm
I love projects like this! Just for the hell of it, or because someone said no, is often enough to make me try harder  :great:
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Jim Snyder on January 03, 2018, 07:57:43 pm
Inspiration is the key to invention. I always hated when someone said "they dont make one of those for your motorcycle". That was my driving force when I built my Con-Tario 4 into 1 exhaust for my C-10. It also inspired about 20 other mods I did converting parts from other bikes to fit my Connie. Carry on.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Bergmen on January 03, 2018, 09:58:29 pm
We're going to find out guys.

I just could not resist the experiment. I'll get a donor bare frame for mock up too.

I have a spare 2005 Concours frame you can have free if you want it (brand new).

E-mail me at bergmen-at-pacific-dot-net if you want to discuss.

Dan
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 04, 2018, 12:47:41 am
You've got it jacksdad.
I picked up the mock up C10 frame tonight. The C14 swingarm assy. is due Jan. 9th
I'll try to get a good look at it along with getting the racecar ready.
Thanks to everyone who had positive (and even not as positive)input and discussion.
You've all motivated the project.  More to follow.  >:D >:D
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 04, 2018, 10:14:03 am
We're going to find out guys.

I just could not resist the experiment. I'll get a donor bare frame for mock up too.

I have a spare 2005 Concours frame you can have free if you want it (brand new).

E-mail me at bergmen-at-pacific-dot-net if you want to discuss.

Dan

Thanks Bergmen for your kind offer. Got one locally for $25.  I thought that was pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: jacksdad on January 04, 2018, 06:26:02 pm
Looking forward to the project, win or lose!  :)
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: CRocker on January 04, 2018, 07:21:01 pm
Yep!  Going where no man has gone before...
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Bergmen on January 04, 2018, 09:59:34 pm
We're going to find out guys.

I just could not resist the experiment. I'll get a donor bare frame for mock up too.

I have a spare 2005 Concours frame you can have free if you want it (brand new).

E-mail me at bergmen-at-pacific-dot-net if you want to discuss.

Dan

Thanks Bergmen for your kind offer. Got one locally for $25.  I thought that was pretty reasonable.

Very good! It is a bear to ship these things anyway. Good luck and keep us posted.

Dan
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 04, 2018, 11:15:13 pm
Thanks guys for your support.  Yep...win or lose we'll give it our best shot.
I'm committed to make this work! Initial checks won't take long, but getting the whole thing done might.
Busy time of year for me.  I'll take some pics and keep you all posted.
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: connie_rider on January 08, 2018, 02:08:48 pm
When you get a chance to look it over, let us know your initial thoughts.
  ie; Does it look do-able or not, and what do you think will have to be modified.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 26, 2018, 10:20:57 am
Finally got a chance to do a mockup on the swingarm. No measurements or geometry details were taken yet.
It fits in the frame fine. Looks like the driveshaft cover flare will need to be cut back some for starters.
It appears to be about an inch longer that the C10 arm. I have a few pics and will post as soon as I can get them to fit here.  I also checked to be sure the coupling splines will work from the C10 output to C14 driveshaft.
They do! I'll do more detail as time allows. Cheers!   >:D
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: connie_rider on January 26, 2018, 02:09:48 pm
I think a big concern is going to be the geometry of the suspension.
I know you haven't done detailed look yet, but,,, what about the shock/rocker/links?
Do they look feasible?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on January 26, 2018, 02:54:29 pm
Not sure about the rocker links yet Ted. It did look like the shock area was too tight. Probably need to do some relocation or move shock mount. Yes, the geometry will be another big can of worms. Still a lot to check. This is a backburner project as I'm doing front and rear 17"
wheels, fork and brake rebuilds and probably carbs and cam from Steve to be ready for the season.
Thanks!
Dean
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: connie_rider on May 03, 2018, 08:27:14 pm
Any progress on this project?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: C14 swingarm
Post by: Wingedspirit on May 04, 2018, 12:48:20 am
I wish. Progress took a step back with the purchase of a C14 and sale of the C10 to my son.
We'll resume other upgrades like wheels and shock though.
Thanks Ted.