Author Topic: Car tire on a Connie  (Read 13954 times)

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Offline danodemotoman

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Car tire on a Connie
« on: April 24, 2008, 02:45:00 am »
First the usual disclaimer. Don't do it. I am not advising you to do it. It is Dangerass! Like motorcycling in general it will kill you :)   Any customer mod is done at the customers expense and may contribute to acne and injury.     Last year I was doing a moto tour of Australia and stayed with a few on the GTR1000 owners/members (Concours in AU and Urup)   Don and Adalie Wooding in Taree, NSW have a side car. Sidecardon showed me his rig with a car tire on a Kaw ZL1000 Eliminator 15" rear wheel that fits the same drive as the Concours. (ZL900/1000 same wheel)   The ZL wheel is a 15". Sourcing radial car tires in our limited tire width I did not come across any in the Connies 16" rear wheel diameter.   I have since read a few articles of std bikes like the heavy cruisers (VTX and Vstars) and GW1800's using the car tires with good results.  
      Why? Mileage=$ I typically go thru 3 rear tires yearly on my Concours. With 4 other bikes I ride it really adds up!   Naysayers put down the concept with several statements based on non supported opinion.   Users say it works with minor differences on handling.  I now can say the same as did 250 mi the last two days. Superior brake and accel traction. As good if not better cornering traction. (PNWEt has been well, wet) 'Different' feel when initiating a corner? Sometimes. But compare it to riding a bike you are not accustomed to. That usually will be a lesson in handlng difference also.   Slow riding below 30 mph is where I felt it to be different in turning, At hwy speeds no difference. Lean it over, no problem.   Like all tires the pressure may be critical. Below 35 psi it was a little squirrely. Once up to 35 it was as stable as stock tires.     1) Sourced a ZL wheel from salvage for $100.   2) Bought a $70 Nankang 165R-15, Nankang  N812,  tire       from Les Schwab. Rated m/s thought this might be      wise for water displacement/siping?   3) milled 1/4" off the ouside boss of the cast       aluminum rear brake mount to clear the rotor as      there was an interference fit with caliper bracket       and disc stock    4) used two 7/8 washers 1/8" thick between the wheel        spacer and the above brake mount to maintain the       std dim between the swingarm. Will later install a       closer fit dia washer.   So far it is a keeper.   Dan the Cartarman  
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 03:28:00 am by danodemotoman »

Offline smithr1

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Car tire on a Connie
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2008, 08:53:00 am »
It would be nice and I would feel better if they would just design and sell a motorcycle tire that lasted longer!  Put some meat on it for gosh sake.  It might be less sporty or whatever but you would know that when you bought it and you would also know it is built to take riding up on the sidewall.  Whats stopping them?  Money, what else.  They have you buying 3 rear tires a year now.  If they only see you every three years then woe is them.    <p align="left">My Photos
 
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Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 02:01:00 am »
The world is insane not me.    Photos of tire mod. Used a Kaw ZL1000  Eliminator wheeel that matches the Concours ZG drive.  Don Wooding in AU gave me the info last year on my AU  tour.  http://community.webshots.com/album/33184237DzxCmD   It works, like any application it has differences  compared to a MC tire.   800 miles on it.    Dan's Moto photo History:  http://tinyurl.com/2u67gu  '07 3 month Australia tour photos:  http://danodemotoman.smugmug.com/  other photos:  http://community.webshots.com/user/danodemotoman  http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x226/danodemotoman/  Dan Paulsen   Graham WA  COG 2877, AMA, NMA, BRC  Dirt, dual sport, adventure touring, sport touring..... I want it all  Yo Ho, Yo Ho, It's a Biker's Life For Me!    

Offline smithr1

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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 11:11:00 am »
That is sick (hmm did he mean good or bad)  Let us know how it goes.  What that tire cost maybe $40 and I bet you get 20k easy out of it even with the leaning on the edges.    <p align="left">My Photos
 
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Offline Rich

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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2008, 02:34:00 pm »
So, Dan, what's next?  Cupholders?  Curb feelers?       ;)  The Original Rich Reed  COG #7  1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R  1977 Yamaha XS650 Standard  2004 Little Blue Chevy  
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Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 09:12:00 pm »
Considering the tire thread is one of the longest and largest running threads ...   In Dallas area now with 5 k mi on the tire.  Not sure if I can see any noticeable wear.   What ... a tire with the mileage of a Dunflop 491/E-2/3 etc and the cornering/braking traction of a sport radial?  Yes, cornering too.   HHmmmmn. So far it has won me over. The EBWT 491 did not.    Skeptics abound. The one two wheeled car tire Connie rider is at large. Coming soon to your area.   Riding in the heartland of America.   Admission tickets tavailable at the Carnie office at the Nat'l.  :)   Dan P COG 2877  
« Last Edit: May 31, 2008, 08:35:00 pm by danodemotoman »

Offline 2linby

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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 10:56:00 pm »
Dan,    Thanks for the update on your experiment. Although you have received more chiding then you probably desire I figure having ridden with you on many occassions there is no better rider that I can think of to have taken this intreped path into the COG history books.  After checking your tire out at the Bun Warmer (cooler) I was inpressed with your set up.      Now that all being said, please do yourself a favor and get out of Texas as soon as possible!  Those rednecks might not understand your choice of tires and they could become hostile.  ;)  AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks!  COG #5539  AMA #927779  IBA #15034  Team Oregon MC Instructor
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Offline RP3_ Vancouver USA

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Car tire on a Connie
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2008, 02:06:00 am »
What are you running on the front?  

Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2008, 02:31:00 pm »
 I am running NOS Mich 89X tires that I just think are the perfect tire for the Connie. They are the 110 width and allow the bike to steer into the corner more easily on my '01 compared to the stock 120.   I don't believe the 'excessive' concerns about age of the tires are warranted as long as they are not setting in the sunlight during storage. The exterior sealant used for new tires to prevent outgassing lasts.  Have another 6 in the shed. The wear is even with zero side wall cracking.   Slightly harder compond than the current offering for sport touring radials.   No cupping even at 36 psi. With center groove minimal wandering on grooved pavement.   Get about 8k mi. Slightly more than sport touring radials. I am hard on tires!  

Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2008, 03:09:00 pm »
Update on the "Car Tire on a Connie'     (Read the article in the next issue of the Concourier)      In the initial 2500 miles of 'experimentation' riding all types of roads and progressively leaning the bike from slight to full lean at speed, my confidence in the tire made me willing to go on a long tour.   After 9500 miles including the 08 NW BC, Wy, Dallas, back to WY , 08 Natl, S. OR and back home to WA state..  I can adopt the reply of others who have used a modern car radial rear tire. I have read " I won't go back to a MC tire"  on the rear of the Connie.   The advantages are multiple including safety.   Safety? Yeah, a tire that has more traction in all conditions (wet/dry/dirt/pavement) and attitudes (lean, braking, acell) than any MC tire I have used INCLUDING a sport touring radial. Plus the high mileage (20k plus) of the Hard bias/belted ply long wearing tires (which IMO detract from sport handling). What a combination in one tire!   The remaining issue of the Nankang brand car tire (one ply side wall) is a negative. The flexing of the side wall. This is actually slight feed back to the rider, not an issue of traction. But I did not like it. Looked at the other two tire options that fit the 15" ZL wheel and the width limitation of the ZG swingarm.. Neither has a two ply sidewall.   Decided to try the brand Federal 165/80R15 tire.   Wow. This is the one for sure. No noticeble side wall flex. Steers easily into the corners. Exceptional traction.   The radius of the Federal tire across the tread is a smaller radius (more round than the Nankang but not as round as a MC tire) and the shoulders of the tread are more round as well. This makes it more neutral in lean, steering into a corner, than the Nankang which required more ride input to initiate and maintain the lean. The Federal still requires slightly more input than a MC tire.   Rode with a group this last Sat with a 'spirited pace' and all bikes were smaller/lighter. I had a wonderful time in the twisties with this tire. A high confidence factor is  major plus. Knowing that the traction is increased made the ride more relaxed even at high lean.   Several have asked me about the application on other MC's. It appears to be somewhat unique to each MC based on wheel size/width as well as swingarm width. One owner of a Road King asked. I looked and appears to have the same size tire as a stock Connie. Lots of room on the right side of the tire to the swingarm. Not enough clearance for the wider 165 tire on the left due to the width of the drive belt.   Your Tread May Vary   Dan  
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 03:36:00 pm by danodemotoman »

Offline Greg Habel

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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2008, 04:14:00 pm »
Thanks for doing all the testing and now giving us more tire options.  Greg  COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey)  CDA 0120  Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD)  99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle".  05 Ninja 250  
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Offline Fred_Harmon_TX

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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2008, 11:22:00 pm »
I pray that the day you figure out just what a huge mistake putting a car tire on a motorcycle is won't be your last day on earth.    We lost a COG member a couple years ago that had a bias ply tire on his bike that it wasn't designed to run. He low sided in a corner when his rear tire lost traction. I watched it happen and I watched him die, and I don't ever want to see that again.    I beg you to reconsider. Cutting corners on tires to save a few dollars is not good logic.    Fred H.  
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 11:27:00 pm by Fred_Harmon_TX »
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Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 06:15:00 pm »
 Fred, thanks for your concern.   With only 10k mi on the tires I am still quite certain it is a safer tire than a MC tire. More traction in all conditions and attitudes.    My selction of using a radial engineered car tire should not be confused with a bias ply tire. The modern radial constructed car tires that suits the sizing of the Concours are not your garandpa's tires. Ceratinly is NOT a bias car tire. Would not consider that.   I addition I would caution riding a large touring bike like a sport tourer :)   Regards,   Dan  

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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 06:09:00 pm »
A motorcycle tire is designed to loose traction and slide in a progressive and predictable way, informing the rider they are approaching the tires limits. How many of you have ever felt a rear motorcycle tire slide on you in a corner? That is what they are supposed to do, slide a little and then recover, giving you a warning. A car tire that is leaned over and skewing the carcass will most assuredly break traction in a sudden and unpredictable way, and once it does, the carcass will snap back to it
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Offline RP3_ Vancouver USA

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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2008, 12:59:00 am »
I think it is important to note that nobody is suggesting the use of a car tire for Hayden or Rossi or for a GSXR or any other serious performance application. The suggestion is for use on a goldwing, Concours, or cruiser type of bike - particularly for slabbing use. It makes sense to me and I am going to likely try it out for my own 100 mile commute up I5. I wonder what all the extreme naysayers think about a big ol' knobby on a 1200GS or a KLR in terms of compromised contact patch and potential problems. I have not heard anybody suggest that an anakee or TKC should be validated by MotoGP racers.   Just my .02  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2008, 01:00:00 am by Ross_Pickering_WA »

Offline Boburns

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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2008, 01:06:00 pm »
Quote
A motorcycle tire is designed to loose traction and slide in a progressive and predictable way, informing the rider they are approaching the tires limits. How many of you have ever felt a rear motorcycle tire slide on you in a corner? That is what they are supposed to do, slide a little and then recover, giving you a warning. A car tire that is leaned over and skewing the carcass will most assuredly break traction in a sudden and unpredictable way, and once it does, the carcass will snap back to it
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Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2008, 03:01:00 pm »
 http://tinyurl.com/5j77xr   Rather than answer repeated questions or assumptions about using a car tire on the rear of my Connie this URL has the basic explanations by those who are using the ct. Keep in mind that those who say it will only work on a cruiser of heavy tourer have not used it on a sport tourer as I do.  http://tinyurl.com/5j77xr  

Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 07:49:00 am »
Update: 16" tire   Recently sourced the Vredestien Comtrac 175/R7516 tire from Les Swab and they ordered it thru a New Jersey distributor. It is a Holland brand. It is more 'stiff' like a MC tire, 5 plies on the tread and two on the sidewall. C rated, light truck, light van. It was easy to bead on the stock Connie rear wheel using only 35 psi. The tread itself is 0.4" more wide than the Federal. Most tires have some different affect on motorcycle handling and will see how this one does. More expensive at $153.   Interesting that the widest part of the 175 Comtrac tire (sidewall bulge) is slghtly more narrow that the 165 Federal car tire now on the 15" Eliminator wheel. The actual tread width is .04" more wide than the Federal.   The Federal now on the bike is only 1/2 worn so not sure when this new tire will be tested.   Dan P   NWCOG WA AAD             COG 2877    

Offline NCDave

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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 04:48:00 pm »
Dan, I'm interested in your results with the 16 inch tire.  I'm considering getting a used connie rim and mounting the CT on it to be able to swap out more easliy.  I have not tried the one you got.  I did try a 195 series tire on my Vulcan with poor results.  Clearance was fine, but sidewall support wasn't strong enough and I had a lot of squirming and roll at normal speeds.  The more air the better it performed, but I was up to 60 PSI and decided it just wasn't worth the risk.  I had wondered how the 175 would work, but just bought my Connie to replace my Vulcan, so gave up the idea....Now YOU appear!!!  :D  

Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2009, 01:44:00 am »
 NC Dave     My experience with the sidewall flex was similar.   I also found with the 2nd tire that all CT's are not created equal. Even with both being a one ply sidewall the 2nd tire the Federal brand had nearly no noticele sidewall flex. Pehaps it is more gradual?   Also some are available with a two ply sidewall.  

Offline NCDave

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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2009, 05:59:00 pm »
I am suspecting that is the case and that a different type/brand or even size of tire would ride differently.  However, since I've found this Connie, the Vulcan is going to have to go to afford the new one.  Because of my riding style, I won't be putting a CT on the connie.  I'm too aggressive.  :)  

Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2009, 01:21:00 am »
http://tinyurl.com/ddfg92   Adde three photos of ythe 16" Vredetein tire mounted on the stock Conk wheel.   Did I mention it was a !@#*&% stiff carcass and a ***& to mount. Beaded just fine tho.   BTW: I am often suspect as an agressive rider. Not the fastest, just saying.   Dan P COG 2877   NWCOG WA AAD  

Offline Gary T

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« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2009, 11:26:00 pm »
From the tread pattern, it looks likes it would work well in snow and ice.....WHAT AM I SAYING?!?!?!?  
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Offline danodemotoman

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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 04:28:00 am »
Ha ha ha...   All the tires I have come across are rated M& S , mud and snow.   No worries about hydro planing, at least with the rear.   Dan P.  

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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 04:29:00 am »
 Turne out there are more brands available in Urup in the 16" tire. It is a common van/light truck tire.    http://tinyurl.com/ccwppq     Dan P