Concours Owners Group (COG) Forum

Concours Discussion (C10 / ZG1000 / 1000GTR) => Tires/Suspension C10 => Topic started by: Benjamin on April 05, 2014, 06:03:04 pm

Title: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Benjamin on April 05, 2014, 06:03:04 pm
Hey folks,

Does any COG'ers know of a machine shop in the Northeast that has done your or someone else's mean streak wheel machining?  I have found a few machine shops but they are quoting in the range of $170-$250 for the job.  Generally, they aren't too too sure about how to do it, etc.  They say it will be 2-3 hrs.

I was reading on the forum here about guys getting this out the door for $50, maybe thats a few years ago, but I'd like to get out of this for $100 or less.

Please, if you have the Mean Streak wheel and live within 200 miles of Washington DC, let me know where you got it done and how much you paid.

Also, do the bearings need to be out to do the cutting?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

- Beej
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: cafefill on April 05, 2014, 06:12:04 pm
The trick for me was finding someone that had a lathe with a large enough swing to spindle up the wheel with the bearings in. The guy that did it for me held the wheel from spinning with, of all things, a large bungee cord (years ago it would have been a leather strap). It was then just a matter of face turning off the .300". Took all of a half hour to do. Easy peasy. Guess it's who you know, because he did the job for a six pack of craft beer. $170 to $250 sounds high to me, based on the amount of work done, and the time to do it. But- I have ne idea what commercial machine shops charge per hour. Hope this helps.
Cafefill
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: txfatboy on April 05, 2014, 07:28:39 pm
Or, you could do what I did and not machine the wheel at all.  http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,47800.0.html (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,47800.0.html)
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: WG on April 05, 2014, 09:04:19 pm
I got mine done for $85 two years ago.  The place that did mine specializes in repairing damaged expensive rims.  They did not have to remove the bearings.

They are, unfortunately, outside your requirement of within a 200 mile radius of DC.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: BDF on April 05, 2014, 10:19:33 pm
Yep, that is the whole problem. An engine lathe (a conventional lathe) with a swing of 18" or more is a BIG lathe and tough to find. What is needed here is an old gap- bed lathe which is a lot smaller, strictly a manual machine but the ways do not go all the way to the headstock hence something large and relatively thin, such as a wheel, can mount to the headstock and not have to actually clear the ways diametrically. But they are pretty rare and usually quite old- I have only ever seen a couple in my entire life.

A horizontal boring lathe would work too and they are more common than a gap- bed lathe but they are so large that the machine time in them is usually expensive.

Best of luck finding a place.

Brian

The trick for me was finding someone that had a lathe with a large enough swing to spindle up the wheel with the bearings in.

<snip>

Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: GF-in-CA on April 05, 2014, 10:36:33 pm
It is also possible to do the job on a vertical or horizontal mill, but with many shops moving to CNC the cost goes up due to programming.  Your best bet is to find a more "old school" shop that doesn't need as much time for setup.  There may also be a wheel shop in the area that would probably be able to do it.

As txfatboy states there are alternatives to machining the wheel.  I used the Mean Streak rotor on an unmachined wheel, but I made my own brake caliper bracket.  Not machining the wheel may result in the side bags contacting the caliper, causing it to drag, so if you go that route you'll need to make sure you have adequate clearance.  I have aftermarket bags with plenty of clearance, so that wasn't an issue for me.

HTH,
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: tdbru on April 06, 2014, 02:19:03 am
Beej,
it ran me $150 up here in the Northwest.  hard to find a machine shop that would even do it.  most were scared of liability when working on vehicle stuff.  I called a dozen places and finally I found 1 place that would do it.  ran $150,  I showed then the article from the tech pages.  on the positive side, the guy that did the machining also taped the rotor holes deeper by the same amount he milled off of the rotor mounting face, which we never discusses as I figured I could do that myself.  thoughtful guy. 

as far as relocating the caliper etc for the no wheel machining approach, in the long run if you have to get welding done etc. and you can't DIY it may end up running about the same $.  6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other as they say.

if I had to do it over and had the two choices, I'd still get the meanstreak wheel machined.  and though the machinist never mentioned either way, I went ahead and took the wheel bearings out of it since I was going to replace them anyway.

-Brian
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Jwh360 on April 06, 2014, 03:03:47 am
Mine was done on a big vertical mill with a rotary table.  Cost me $160 here in SoCal.  My guy didn't care if the bearings were in or out, and I replaced them anyway.  The hardest part was finding a shop that would/could do it.  Most places now are CNC production shops.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: mattchewn on April 06, 2014, 11:59:01 am
Ben,
Did you get my PM?
Matt
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: worncog on April 06, 2014, 12:34:34 pm
Cost me $225, but I am in a small town with one machine shop. Three hours on cnc mill. Painful, but the final product is worth it.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Dave Scott on April 06, 2014, 02:01:29 pm
I'm in Charlotte.  It cost me 150.  The 170 price is nit really bad given the setup that has to be done.  If you can find someone who has already done one you can save some of the setup cost.  Good luck with the search.  You'll love it the long run.   :beerchug:
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Benjamin on April 06, 2014, 04:19:25 pm
Thanks for replies.  I'll keep you guys posted on how the project proceeds. 
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: mattchewn on April 06, 2014, 08:56:14 pm
All,
I have a friend who is willing to machine these wheels. If you are semi-near the metro Wash DC area and need a wheel machined let me know. I believe he will do as many as I give him for @50$ each. He has a full machine shop at home. He was an engineer for Chrysler Corp in the '70's.  He is currently setting up a 30" swing lathe on 144" centers!  The old 17"  100"  just wasn't getting it done apparently.
Matt
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: txfatboy on April 06, 2014, 09:06:00 pm
"As txfatboy states there are alternatives to machining the wheel.  I used the Mean Streak rotor on an unmachined wheel, but I made my own brake caliper bracket.  Not machining the wheel may result in the side bags contacting the caliper, causing it to drag, so if you go that route you'll need to make sure you have adequate clearance."

Actually, the Meanstreak caliper bracket puts the rear caliper in the natural recess of the stock saddle bag. There is no clearance issue with this setup.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: GF-in-CA on April 06, 2014, 09:23:42 pm
txfatboy, glad to hear you don't have a clearance issue, thanks for the input.  Even so, some bags droop more than others and the stock caliper that I used is different than the Mean Streak caliper as well as being in a different position.  Just wanted to make sure that anyone wanting to go that route checks their clearance.   :great:
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Oldspeed on April 08, 2014, 04:51:38 pm
 Beej  ....Check out   Full Circle V Twin in Hagerstown, Md. .....Curtis can do the job...Mill or lathe.....
                                             HTH ,   Oldspeed
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Benjamin on April 08, 2014, 04:57:04 pm
I am delivering my MS wheel to Matt today for the $50 special!  Hopefully his engineer pal will be up to the job once he gets his hands on the wheel.

Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Dave Scott on April 08, 2014, 06:06:35 pm
this should be interesting.  he probably uses a hammer and chisel.   :rotflmao: :nananana:
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: MotoCommuter on April 08, 2014, 07:24:07 pm
If your paying $150+ to have it machined, how come you don't just order a new one that doesn't need machining? Murphs has them for $185.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Dave Scott on April 08, 2014, 07:45:28 pm
I am not aware of anything Murph has to use instead of a meanstreak rim, which needs machining to have the rotor alignment proper with the caliper.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: MotoCommuter on April 08, 2014, 07:51:00 pm
I am not aware of anything Murph has to use instead of a meanstreak rim, which needs machining to have the rotor alignment proper with the caliper.


http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=415 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=415)
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Eddie-SC on April 08, 2014, 07:57:25 pm
Kurt, I think that's just an EBC rotor to fit the wheel. I believe the wheel must still be machined to position the rotor properly.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Dave Scott on April 08, 2014, 08:01:23 pm
yeah, not only that, but the meanstreak wheel has a 7 bolt pattern, not 6.  you need to either machine down the meanstreak rotor to the correct circumference, or get a front rotor from an older Nomad (or order an EBC one that will fit the Nomad).
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: MotoCommuter on April 08, 2014, 08:10:40 pm
Kurt, I think that's just an EBC rotor to fit the wheel. I believe the wheel must still be machined to position the rotor properly.

Ok, missed that. I thought it was an either or.

So you have to machine down the wheel and machine the stock rotor or buy the front Nomad (or equivalent).
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: 2linby on April 08, 2014, 08:26:35 pm
this should be interesting.  he probably uses a hammer and chisel.   :rotflmao: :nananana:

As long as it is a dull hammer and a sharp chisel all should be good!   :-\ ;)

Mine was done locally at a small old shop. Cost me $150 including cutting down the stock mean streak rear rotor to the 280mm size.  However I ended up not using the cut down rotor so it was a waste of time and money on my part.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: GF-in-CA on April 08, 2014, 09:21:28 pm
The part number for the rotor at Murph's is correct, it's probably just a generic picture of the rotor.

Motocommuter, check out this article, it should give you everything you need to know for the swap (see option 2).   :great:

http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/ClubStatic.cfm?clubID=1328&pubmenuoptID=35726 (http://www.cog-online.org/clubportal/ClubStatic.cfm?clubID=1328&pubmenuoptID=35726)
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: MotoCommuter on April 09, 2014, 10:37:07 am
Gary,

Thanks, I've actually read it but apparently have issues comprehending it. I missed the fact that the wheel had to be machined down. For some reason, I had it that the existing rotor had to be machined down or replaced with the nomad rotor. That was why I posted what I did.

Now get this, I'm actually doing this project. I'm glad I posted and showed my ignorance as I would have been cussing up a storm when I went to put the meanie wheel on. Now I'm looking for a machine shop as well.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: worncog on April 09, 2014, 11:03:52 am
You can look at mine this weekend Kurt. I'm running the Meanie and the Nomad rotor.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: MotoCommuter on April 09, 2014, 11:08:13 am
Randy,

Thanks. I sent out an email to a couple friends asking if they knew of a machine shop. i think there is one down the street from me, I'm going to call them today.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Benjamin on April 09, 2014, 05:11:20 pm
The guide for getting the wheel machined has the lip and the mounting surface cut down in proportion.  Could one simply cut the mounting surface flat and lose the lip, resulting in a flat surface?  With seven bolts, if the lip needed to keep the rotor in place?
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: GF-in-CA on April 09, 2014, 05:39:25 pm
It would probably work, but it doesn't seem like it would save much time, if any, to do it that way.  It has been pointed out before that the lip doesn't really need to be trimmed, so if you want to save some time you could eliminate that operation.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Benjamin on April 09, 2014, 05:58:59 pm
Gary, I don't mean not trimming the lip, I mean cutting it so it is flat with the mounting surface.  Does the rotor need the lip to stay in position?
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: GF-in-CA on April 09, 2014, 06:30:43 pm
Beej, I understood what you were saying, hence my comment that I didn't think it would save much time.  Personally I would leave the lip, even though the flat head screws would probably hold it fine.  The lip allows any longitudinal loads to be shared between the bolts and the lip, rather than only being resisted by the bolts.  Granted, it's not a big load compared to the size of the bolts, but it does help.  Again, you can leave the lip as it is and save some time there.

HTH,
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bob_C_CT on April 11, 2014, 11:42:03 pm
When I did mine I found that the lip didn't even touch the inside diameter of the (meanstreak) rotor. So in theory I don't see the lip as anything more than an alignment aid in putting the rotor on. I suppose if you were to loose some of the rotor bolts this would keep the rotor somewhat aligned to the caliper and help avoid a catostraphic event. I don't see any reason to or time savings by cutting the lip making it one level mounting surface. I used the lip outside diameter to locate the center of the wheel when doing the cut since I used the through axle hole to hold it in the vise.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bergmen on April 15, 2014, 03:26:12 pm
I would hate to machine the lip off and wish I hadn't. You can't put it back.

Dan
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bill_Heil_NM on April 24, 2014, 09:59:58 pm
So, I am interested in this project and I have a Sieg X3 vertical milling machine that has 9 inches of clearance from the center of the cutter to the support post.  Seems I could mount the wheel on a rotary table and do the job.  Anyone know why not???  I am not an expert machinist by any means, and have never done anything this big, so just looking for some advice here, something I may be missing.  Bill. 
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bergmen on April 24, 2014, 10:49:21 pm
So, I am interested in this project and I have a Sieg X3 vertical milling machine that has 9 inches of clearance from the center of the cutter to the support post.  Seems I could mount the wheel on a rotary table and do the job.  Anyone know why not???  I am not an expert machinist by any means, and have never done anything this big, so just looking for some advice here, something I may be missing.  Bill.

That is how mine was machined, on a rotary table on a Bridgeport (or Bridgeport clone).

Dan
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bob_C_CT on April 26, 2014, 09:13:54 am
It seems that it would fit. If you have a rim available, concours or mean streak I would stand it up on yhe table (same orientation as though it was mounted in the rotary table, then bring the spindle down near the proposed cut area to make sure you have clearance between the machine spindle and that the rest of the machine head and it won't hit any portion of the rim. It should be ok, remember the more you extend the spindle the less rigid your setup will be on any machine especially smaller machines. As long as you have a handle on aligning the rotary table to the machine and aligning the rim to the table and holding the rim relatively tight, given that the rim material is soft and by taking a few "light" cuts the machine should be capable. The setup is key, once you make a cut you may not have a second chance of realigning the rim.
I'm not a master machinist but have had ample time on machine tools so if you have any questions...

On a side note if you have to spend some serious money on a rigid, sturdy rotary table that you may not have further use for I would think you could find a local machine shop that may do it for around $100.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bill_Heil_NM on April 26, 2014, 01:23:36 pm
Bob: thanks for the reply.  I had been thinking about buying a rotary table anyway.  But then there is the question of whether to buy a 4" or a 6".  the 6 being a little large, but probably more rugged, stable, etc.  I think I could set up the table and make sure the wheel trams with the cutting head, and I have nothing but time, so small cuts are no problem.   I am still thinking on this mean streak mod, as it will end up being pretty expensive.  These wheels are anywhere to $300 on ebay to $500 from recyclers, plus machining, plus a rotor, plus the tires, etc, etc.  Besides, I just put on new BT45s, and being the frugal sort, I have to wear them out, at least SOME.  Lots to think about.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bergmen on April 26, 2014, 02:31:08 pm
Well, there is really no getting around it. Converting to 17" on the rear is going to require a not insignificant investment in both time and money. Outside of the original acquisition cost of the wheel, the rest of the parts that result in a bolt-in conversion just needs to be done to enjoy the advantages of the low profile, hi-tech 17" radial tires that are out there. When I did mine six years ago I considered it a long-term investment in a tire system that would continue to evolve in technology.

Tires are extremely important to the safety and handling of motorcycles, no mystery there. The Concours is a platform worth investing in IMO in order to take advantage of modern tires and the motorcycle benefits from the upgrade very nicely.

So I did reach for my wallet and bend a few wrenches six + years ago to convert both front and rear. I have not regretted it one single bit and I have favorably amortized that investment over the years. I do not miss the 18/16 stock combo at all.

We are lucky the we CAN convert to 17" wheels with a little work and some investment. Many motorcycles cannot do this at all unless a full custom route is taken. Anybody know of a single Goldwing that has been converted? I didn't think so.

Dan
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bill_Heil_NM on April 26, 2014, 02:41:36 pm
So, why convert the front when you can get a PR3 for the front, and actually a 170/60-17 PR3 for the rear??  (I have PR3s on my V-strom and I love those tires).  Is there some other advantage of  having a 17" front??  It would lower the front of the bike??  Bill
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bergmen on April 26, 2014, 02:50:51 pm
So, why convert the front when you can get a PR3 for the front, and actually a 170/60-17 PR3 for the rear??  (I have PR3s on my V-strom and I love those tires).  Is there some other advantage of  having a 17" front??  It would lower the front of the bike??  Bill

To me, the front being converted is far less important than the rear (as far as tires choices are concerned). You are correct in that state-of-the-art tires are available in 18" and there are excellent choices here. I didn't tell the whole story on the front conversion since for me, I was after the handling/braking improvement of the ZRX forks that just happen to include the light weight 17" wheel along with the package.

Staying with 18" in front and going to 17" in the rear is really an excellent combination that will work very well.

Dan
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Dave Scott on April 26, 2014, 03:06:32 pm
So, why convert the front when you can get a PR3 for the front, and actually a 170/60-17 PR3 for the rear??  (I have PR3s on my V-strom and I love those tires).  Is there some other advantage of  having a 17" front??  It would lower the front of the bike??  Bill

To me, the front being converted is far less important than the rear (as far as tires choices are concerned). You are correct in that state-of-the-art tires are available in 18" and there are excellent choices here. I didn't tell the whole story on the front conversion since for me, I was after the handling/braking improvement of the ZRX forks that just happen to include the light weight 17" wheel along with the package.

Staying with 18" in front and going to 17" in the rear is really an excellent combination that will work very well.

Dan

if it's just tires you are after, the 18 works.  however, the suspension and braking improvements were really the big key for me.  it's a night-and-day improvement.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bergmen on April 26, 2014, 03:32:09 pm
So, why convert the front when you can get a PR3 for the front, and actually a 170/60-17 PR3 for the rear??  (I have PR3s on my V-strom and I love those tires).  Is there some other advantage of  having a 17" front??  It would lower the front of the bike??  Bill

To me, the front being converted is far less important than the rear (as far as tires choices are concerned). You are correct in that state-of-the-art tires are available in 18" and there are excellent choices here. I didn't tell the whole story on the front conversion since for me, I was after the handling/braking improvement of the ZRX forks that just happen to include the light weight 17" wheel along with the package.

Staying with 18" in front and going to 17" in the rear is really an excellent combination that will work very well.

Dan

if it's just tires you are after, the 18 works.  however, the suspension and braking improvements were really the big key for me.  it's a night-and-day improvement.

10-4, the 17" wheel on the ZRX front end was just a very nice fringe benny to the package.

It's all good!

Dan
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bill_Heil_NM on April 26, 2014, 06:59:29 pm
Thanks for all the replies.  You all are really tempting me.  One thing at a time I guess.  Bill
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: tdbru on April 27, 2014, 03:05:02 am
Bill,
keep looking on ebay etc.  I looked for about 3 months and finally a meanstreak rear wheel showed up at a price I could live with.  I like the 17 front due to the 120/70 having a bit more rubber on the pavement if I understood things correctly.  i do like the versatility of the 17 rear when it comes to buying tires, but the rear tire solution, even for 17s is still a bit more limited than on some bikes.  i.e.  a 170/60 is about as wide as will fit between swingarm.  I picked the 160/70 due to the bit higher weight rating.  it feels like to me that the handling & braking have been upgraded with the switch to 17s both front/rear.  but you don't need to do them both at once.  since you just put a new set on the bike, that'll give you extra time to search for a MSW while your out wearing out the current set of tires.
Brian
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: Bill_Heil_NM on April 27, 2014, 01:52:36 pm
There are a number of MSW on ebay right now.  One, slightly dented for $120, one with a starting price of $160, and a couple with buy it now prices of $300+.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: MotoCommuter on June 03, 2014, 04:47:33 pm
OK, finally got my meanie wheel machined, installed the rotor and had a new PR4 installed. I managed to get the wheel on the bike but it was a PITA. Everything fit and installed back on like it should. Now, I need to finish up a couple maintenance  items and get the plastic back on and see how it rides. Hopefully I'll be able to test it this weekend.

FYI, I was able to get it machined for a $100. A friend of a friend had a CNC machine and did it for me.
Title: Re: Machining the Mean Streak = not much fun
Post by: KJohnson21 on June 27, 2014, 04:10:13 am
I got a nice deal on eBay for my Mean Streak wheel with a decent tire.  It took me longer to find the Nomad rotor!  Thought I had one at first, turns out the vendor had mislabeled a rear rotor.
I had to go through four or five shops before I found one that could machine the wheel.  I wish I hadn't mentioned the depth of the bolt holes, I could have done that myself.  Turned out to be $225 (3 hrs. @ $75) but I have admit, the guy did a very nice job.
I've been happy with the "new" wheel ever since.  Even more now that I put a new set of Dunlop RoadSmart 2 tires on the bike recently.