Author Topic: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame  (Read 3125 times)

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Offline coffee_brake

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SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« on: May 23, 2017, 08:50:09 pm »

Need to deal with swingarm bearings. They squeak. Shock is off with all the linkage, and the final drive gear is off, but the shaft is still on there.

Got the right swingarm pivot out, but the left one is frozen in place. Heat hasn't worked. Trying to rotate it with a drift pin and hammer isn't working either. More hammer has just mauled the steel, not budged it a bit. I'm putting a good bit of steam behind that hammer and the pin is almost a half inch across, and it's still just malforming the edges without rotating the pivot. Got PB Blaster on it now but I have small hope for that working.

I don't see a way to get through the curved part of the swingarm pivot area to get pressure on it from behind.

I'm kinda stuck here. I did a search here and saw all the great ideas, but they're not working for me.

Is there anything in the final drive parts to get in the way? Is there something I need to watch out for if I do find a way to apply pressure from behind?
 
Would even more heat be acceptable? I didn't want to cook off anything important but I can rattle-can some paint if I need to get it even hotter.

Thanks everybody...I still love this bike and it really, REALLY needs some suspension lovin'....
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 09:11:52 pm »
 :-\

STOP....
No more hammering... wth is wrong here?

NO HAMMER....
Gimme a minute....
I'll be back....

30 YEARS OF KAW.....Rich R. (the other one..)  COG 5977  JUSTAMEMBAHNOW

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 09:30:41 pm »
I know you have a manual, best look at the procedures...
It does require some tooling.... but NOT a hammer....

See section 10-13 and remove the drive shaft from the housing, careful and don't let the spring loaded pin shoot out into space... pull the shaft then.

Follow the instructions on using an M6 bolt, to pull the triangular ends out... see section 12-12....
If you are pulling bearings, you will need a bearing puller, like the kind used on a stearing head bearing, and it attaches to a "slide hammer" knda like a seal puller...

I'm not sure what you are hammering on, as everything has to be pulled outwards... not hammered on.

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Offline RWulf

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 11:04:21 pm »
Jenn, stop, put down the BFH. Take a deep breath.
Listen to the MAN OF BLUES.
He's not right all the time but this time I believe he is.

Offline Bob H

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2017, 11:12:11 pm »
Assuming this is what you're trying to remove, Here are some pictures that may help.  I just happened to have a slide hammer handy.

Make sure you remove the three bolts holding the plate first!!  My pictures are just for reference, I'm not actually taking my swing arm off, just trying to show how. ;D
Remember, much of what you see on-line is wrong or misguided, your task is to filter that out!
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 11:43:33 pm »
Jenn, stop, put down the BFH. Take a deep breath.
Listen to the MAN OF BLUES.
He's not right all the time but this time I believe he is.

Thanks... I think..... :??:

I've probably forgotten more Conni facts and stuff, than most will ever learn, cumulatively...
No problemo.
 :great:

Jenn
They have slide hammers for loan down at Autozone, or Advance auto parts, free.. just have to leave them a license and or charge card, and they can hook ya up...

I dunno why you tried to pull all this apart, the bearings seldom if ever, really go bad... they just need some grease, and reassembly...
Hopefully same for yours...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 12:00:07 am by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 02:04:12 am »
I've already stretched two bolts trying to pull it by the Clymers. That's not working.
No I'm not beating the thing into a pulp, give me some credit. I'm trying to overcome 100k miles of never ever being serviced and the darn thing is frozen in place.
I buddy with a really nice slide hammer will let me use it if I make my famous Ceasar dressing from scratch, but I can't get this pivot out with a slide hammer. That's for the bearings, not the pivot itself.
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Victor Salisbury

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 10:47:05 am »
The slide hammer IS for the pivot, you have a machined pin going into a machined hole, it needs to come straight out.  If you have the pin removed on the other side I would recommend temp putting that pin back in then go back to your stubborn one and work it with slide hammer.
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 11:37:55 am »
OK that makes sense. But it's in there so tight that I just don't think that little bolt is going to take that kind of beating without snapping off.

Thanks everybody...
The races, if the bearings are squeaking does that mean I certainly need new races?

And how to remove those?
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Bob H

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 12:02:44 pm »
Pictures may help others come up with suggestions.

Is it both sides, or just one?

Using a hardened bolt or socket head screw will be much stronger and may help when using the slide hammer to pull the pivots.
The slide hammer with appropriate end fitting will also get the bearing cups out of the arm once it's apart. 

If it is truly the bearings squeaking it's probably best to replace them, even though they don't really turn like wheel bearings.  I'd get it apart then decide.

If it's the side with the adjusting nut, it may help to put a socket with a big breaker bar on and try turning it with the screws removed to break it free.

Screwing the adjustable side in to generate some internal force may help, but be careful, DON'T SPRING THE FRAME!!!!



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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 12:39:33 pm »
IIRC, there are threaded holes in the exterior flange. Find some bolts that thread in, and push against the frame by tightening the bolts. it's walk the unit out. BTDT. Steve
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Offline Bob H

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 01:04:37 pm »
Maybe for other years?  At least on an '88, the screw holes in the flange have no threads, and the center hole is blind into the pivot pin, so it looks like you need to use a slide hammer to pull them.

That center 6mm tapped hole does look a bit weak for pulling rusted pivot, but a really strong bolt will have a better chance.
Remember, much of what you see on-line is wrong or misguided, your task is to filter that out!
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Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 02:14:59 pm »
Maybe for other years?  At least on an '88, the screw holes in the flange have no threads, and the center hole is blind into the pivot pin, so it looks like you need to use a slide hammer to pull them.

That center 6mm tapped hole does look a bit weak for pulling rusted pivot, but a really strong bolt will have a better chance.

  Yes, now I remember, I made up a little framework from a C channel that buttressed the frame and stood out from the pin. Put the 6mm bolt through the center into the pin and tighten. I had to use some penetrating oil and even some love taps, but the constant outward pressure from the bolt finally got it moving in the right direction.  Fortunately I've only had one difficult to remove, Jen must just be lucky  >:( 

  ETA - the trick on pulling anything with this type of puller (klr alternator, auto steering wheel, etc) is to use never seize on the bolt threads, and under the bolt head / washer or any contact point being pushed against by the bolt. it makes a world of difference in how much pressure you can apply. HTHSteve
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 02:46:16 pm by Steve in Sunny Fla »
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 06:50:49 pm »
Ok, here is another methid, its slow, but only costs a couple bucks.

Search thru your socket collection for a socket somewhere around 2-1/2", or mahbe larger
This needs to fit over the triangular flange, and rest against the frame, like an upside down cup...
Obtain a grade 8 hex head bolt,  and a stack of 1/4" fender washers, maybe a dozen or so.
Bolt length needs to be long enough that with one fender washer under the head, and the bolt passed thru the square hole in the socket, that it threads into the tapped hole in the pivot flange...
This will make a "puller"... just don't bottom out that bolt.
Now tighten the bolt and it will pull the pin correctly, when it runs out of thread, add another washer or two to the stack, and repeat, it should pull straight, and as I say, its slow, but offers best case scenario without a slide hammer... you just have to keep adding washers to the stack under the bolt head..

Can you visualize this, or is more explanation required...?
Best of luck,
Also if you have some good bolt spray like PB Blaster( worlds best... always have it on hand) as soon as it moves and creates an opening, spray that in there and let it creep into the pin...

Also note, depending on the collection of sockets you may have, or can find, there has to be one either metric or SAE that should be pretty tight and contact the 3 lobes of that pivot, in the corners of the sockets hex, and if you have one that is tight enough, you might try doing some rotation on the socket with a breaker bar, to break the pin free a bit also...much better than trying to rotate it with a pipe wrench.... ;)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 07:17:29 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 09:25:02 pm »
Thanks, I think both of y'all are thinking the same thing with the piece of channel and the socket.

I picked up a slide hammer (cuz it'll help with other bearings/races later) and it ain't budging it. It's not a very big slide hammer. But the bolt isn't very big either.

Lots of PB Blaster.

This thing just ain't moving.

I'll try to make a puller next, but I'm giving this slide hammer everything I have and it just ain't moving. Hasn't snapped the bolt yet, though.
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2017, 03:44:34 am »
Before you snap the bolt, try the last part I noted about the socket thing...the part about one that fits the triangle tightly, and apply some twist using a long breaker bar, with a cheater pipe to extend the handle , if needed, to give the triangle a twist...

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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 11:47:38 am »
Yep, gonna try to find a socket that big today. Looks like 2 1/8? 2 1/4 would do it...
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Jim

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 12:19:16 pm »
Did I miss where you said you had the other swing arm pivot re-installed while your trying to get the stuck one out?

Offline Bob H

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 12:30:04 pm »
Did I miss where you said you had the other swing arm pivot re-installed while your trying to get the stuck one out?

Good question, is this so the swing arm isn't twisting on the remaining pivot? 

That would make it harder to pull.
Remember, much of what you see on-line is wrong or misguided, your task is to filter that out!
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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 04:35:05 pm »
Oh of course, you're right, I had the other pivot put back in there to make sure it was lining up.

I finally got the darn thing out!
I rented the biggest slide hammer they had at Advance Auto. Way bigger than the one I was using before.

MOB there were no sockets big enough to get a twist on the pivot, but the BIG slide hammer had it out in maybe a dozen hits.

Now I can use it to get the races out and return it. 

THANK YOU everybody, another moving part renewed on the old gal.
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Bob H

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2017, 06:57:17 pm »
Congratulations, good news!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 07:11:09 pm by Bob H »
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Offline RWulf

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2017, 12:34:43 pm »
Now you can sit back and enjoy a Bud.
Have good holiday.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2017, 03:00:41 pm »
Ok, inquiring minds gotta know..
After you got it out,,, how did the bearing/etc look?
Are you going to have to replace all? (Or just clean and grease)

Ride safe, Ted

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Offline coffee_brake

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2017, 08:36:00 pm »
actually not bad. But SOMETHING was squeaking and by golly I got it apart and new bearings are going in!
Jenn in "Chaahlston, y'all...."

Offline Thud300

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Re: SWINGARM! Stuck in the frame
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2017, 02:20:46 am »
When was the squeaking occurring?

My 98 will make bushing-squawky noise when I jounce it by sitting on it. Never hear it until I'm backing up to park and then only if I jounce hard enough to hear it. I've lubed up all the tri-link zerks, haven't had the rear shock out yet.
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