Author Topic: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....  (Read 2225 times)

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Offline Proliant

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This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« on: October 01, 2018, 03:11:59 pm »
I was out for a ride and stopped for gas ..... I'm glad I ran into the store for a Gatorade because on my way out something looked wrong. It almost seems like part ripped off and not that it was worn off. I ride pretty gentle usually between 40-60mph on back roads and I really don't take corners hard. I'm just glad that I was able to gingerly get it home, I don't think I was faster than 25. For me riding is all about relaxation. How the heck did this happen without me even knowing about it or noticing? The person I bought the bike from said the tires had about 3k on them and they certainly looked good (That was in August - the front still looks fine). Are Avon AV66 tires known for this? If so than I certainly don't want them back.

I know there are other options for tires ..... will I have an issue with different brands front and back or should I replace the whole kit and kaboodle regarding tires?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 03:25:58 pm by Proliant »

Offline Warwgn

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 03:38:46 pm »
you can mix tires, you will a bazillion answers to this I am sure but run the tire you like. I sugges a Dunlop E4 in goldwing size, very good in all conditions and will last about 12000 or more miles. I ran one and it was fine but I switched to a car tire and love it, has 30366 miles on it and still lots of tread left. Works grest in rain too, ran over a large bolt about 15000 miles ago and took it off patched it on the inside and been riding it since.

Do what makes sense to you and what your comfortable with.

Offline Proliant

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 04:04:39 pm »
Switched to a car tire? I think I have heard of people with Valkyries doing that ...... and heard nothing but good depending on riding style. Do you have to do the "mean streak" wheel swap for that? Sizes, brands, work required? It certainly caught my interest.

Offline Bud

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2018, 04:24:05 pm »
You don't have to change wheels to run a car tire.  I believe that a bit of grinding on the swing arm may be required.  Going to the dark side (running a car tire) is controversial to say the least, but it does have a following.  IIRC Federal and Nexen have the desired sizes.
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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2018, 04:54:26 pm »
I thought about going to the darkside
I have no idea about anything.
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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 05:17:57 pm »
Dan the Moto man would be the one to ask about the car tire. Dan runs a car tire on his C-10 and his V-Rod, I was skeptical about handling but I will admit I struggle to keep up with Dan on a C-14 through the the twisties  :motonoises:
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Offline Warwgn

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 06:07:15 pm »
I am using the oem wheel and an Austone Taxi tire, 175/75R16 I did need to do some minor clearanceing on the front of the swing arm but can tell you it was a ver good swap.

Offline CaffeineMan

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 06:12:35 pm »
I was out for a ride and stopped for gas ..... I'm glad I ran into the store for a Gatorade because on my way out something looked wrong. It almost seems like part ripped off and not that it was worn off. I ride pretty gentle usually between 40-60mph on back roads and I really don't take corners hard. I'm just glad that I was able to gingerly get it home, I don't think I was faster than 25. For me riding is all about relaxation. How the heck did this happen without me even knowing about it or noticing? The person I bought the bike from said the tires had about 3k on them and they certainly looked good (That was in August - the front still looks fine). Are Avon AV66 tires known for this? If so than I certainly don't want them back.

I know there are other options for tires ..... will I have an issue with different brands front and back or should I replace the whole kit and kaboodle regarding tires?


How many miles have you put on them?  I put a total of 7K of reasonably agressive riding on my Avon Storm 3DXM (AV65 front, AV66 rear), then tossed them.  But my rear tire didn't look like this.  Mine was squared off somewhat, but still had tread on it.  For context, I put more details here:

http://forum.cog-online.org/tiressuspension-c10/my-avon-storm-3dxm-experience/

I personally don't like to mix tires, but won't argue with anyone who does.   ;D

I ran wing size tires and got better mileage out of them:
- Almost 20K out of Michelin Pilot GT's (that they don't make any more)
- About 15k on Dunlop E3's.

Was considering Dunlop E4's, but they were expensive as I recall, and I was looking for stock sizes and couldn't find a 110/80-18 front, only 110/90-18, and I was worried about clearance.  Decided to go with Avon Roadrider (AM26) in stock sizes as they are reported by some COGnoscenti as having performance as good as the Storm 3DXM's.  Hoping for 10k out these.  If I get that, I'll stick with these.  I just don't want to be changing tires twice a year.
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Offline Proliant

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 06:54:01 pm »
I would suppose it probably has about 6k on it.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 07:11:08 pm »
Looks like abnormal wear... The right side appears to have tread left and the left is worn to the cords??
I would mount another rear tire and pay particular interest on how it wears..

I get about 5000 miles on the rear if I use radials, but NOTE that I ride a bit harder than you do.
If I recall, I got 8000-9000 if I have belted on the bike.
But, I didn't like the handling as much as when the bike has radials.

{On the C-10's} Some of the guys in the club (including me) are running radials on the front and belted on the rear.
Improves the overall mileage and handles more like having a pair of radials.

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Offline Jeff Kerkow

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 07:16:29 pm »
What Ted said. You need to figure out what is loose, tight, bent, or something. I put 65,000 miles on a C10 and never wore a tire out like that.
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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 07:16:55 pm »
The left side of the tire will (almost) always wear more than the right due to the crown of the roads. One thing that wasn't posted was the AGE of the tire and when was the last time the OP checked his tire pressure (should be done before departing home).  Low pressures will result in more tire "squirm" and quicker wear.
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Offline Proliant

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2018, 07:36:45 pm »
Before I put anything new on it I am trying to see what (if anything) could be rubbing etc ..... I check the pressure every week or so and it still seems to have correct pressure even now. Really, it looks more like something ripped part of it off, not normal wear at all. Unfortunately, it'll have to wait until I get home to have a better look with the bags etc .... pulled off. Damnedest thing I've seen. I had a ride 2 weeks ago with my lady on the back (probably 140 pounds plus my 280) ..... perhaps it was more than the Progressive 465 could handle and it rubbed on something? I dont want to spend money on a tire just to replace it again because I didn't do my due diligence.

Offline Warwgn

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 08:05:27 pm »
another pro of the austone tire, it is rated at 1650 LBS, good luck overlading that!!

Offline CaffeineMan

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 03:17:18 am »
There should be no issue with the Progressive 465.  I have one.  I've ridden at 250 with full saddlebags, a full 52L Givi trunk, and a passenger with no problems at all.
"You put antiseize on those, right?"

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 05:03:05 am »
I was out for a ride and stopped for gas ..... I'm glad I ran into the store for a Gatorade because on my way out something looked wrong. It almost seems like part ripped off and not that it was worn off. I ride pretty gentle usually between 40-60mph on back roads and I really don't take corners hard. I'm just glad that I was able to gingerly get it home, I don't think I was faster than 25. For me riding is all about relaxation. How the heck did this happen without me even knowing about it or noticing? The person I bought the bike from said the tires had about 3k on them and they certainly looked good (That was in August - the front still looks fine). Are Avon AV66 tires known for this? If so than I certainly don't want them back.

I know there are other options for tires ..... will I have an issue with different brands front and back or should I replace the whole kit and kaboodle regarding tires?

I've seen this happen before... there is a part missing....

when you pull that tire off, and the axle is pulled out, the washer under the axle bolt head should be there... with the tire removed, probe into the recess of the splined coupling on the rear drive, there should be a spacer tube there, it usually sits there held by the seal, when the axle is pulled out.. some people have dropped this before, or mis laid it, and when the assembly is put back together without that tube, it cocks the rear tire slightly first time you accelerate, and will result in this wear pattern, as the tire isn't being held 'in tension' thru the combination of bearings and such..

I also highly suggest cleaning the splined drive, and mating part in the wheel damper really well with some solvent, and examining both... usually the drive side will be ok, but the wheel side is subject to extreme wear on the splines, especially if that spacer was missing... you may even need to replace it..
before the teeth are non existant.

p/n is

92027-1553   COLLAR,20.2X28X89

the picture from the fiche shows it with the axle, and washer, but the spacer is actually installed inside the drive housing when pushing the axle in...
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 05:07:10 am by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline batboy

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 11:19:29 am »
Dang, is there anyway to check to see if it's missing short of pulling the wheel back off? I just swapped in a Mean Streak 17" wheel and I had just assumed it was ready to install. The only thing I looked at was the bearings to make sure they were well greased. I might have to pull my wheel back apart and check it just for peace of mind.
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Offline Proliant

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2018, 02:52:04 pm »
@MOB ..... crap, more stuff to look at ..... its never ending. I guess I should just resign myself to more wrenching than riding.

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2018, 07:50:39 pm »
@MOB ..... crap, more stuff to look at ..... its never ending. I guess I should just resign myself to more wrenching than riding.

Dang, is there anyway to check to see if it's missing short of pulling the wheel back off? I just swapped in a Mean Streak 17" wheel and I had just assumed it was ready to install. The only thing I looked at was the bearings to make sure they were well greased. I might have to pull my wheel back apart and check it just for peace of mind.

WELL, it's really not a big deal as far as time and effort, imho it can be done in about a half hour max, taking your time, ... 3 wrenches... one for axle nut, one for axle end, and one for brake stay bolt...

Pro, you have to pull that tire off anyways... what's the big deal?

PLEASE NOTE...
my suggestion/diagnosis is based entirely on what I've seen it the past, combined with your photo...
but, if you would have taken the picture from an angle where the 'gap' around the area where the rear drive alligns with the wheel hub, it would be easier to diagnose...
meaning, if the bike is on the centerstand, and you look at that clearance gap top and bottom, and around the hub, it should be all the same, about 2-3mm (1/16"-1/8"), and when the wheel is flexed side to side, the gap should not vary, or when it's rotated also... if it has contact anywhere around it's circumference, you can bet it's a missing spacer...

9 times out of 10, that spacer stays in place, held inside the drive housing by the inner seal friction, and most folks never have it fall out, or notice it's even there...
when reinstalling it, pre grease the axle shaft full length lightly with bearing grease, slip it with the washer, thru from the outside of the drive housing till its stick out the other side, slip the spacer on the axle, and push the spacer in untill it grips in the inner seal, and slip the axle back an inch to clear the splined section so the wheel goes in.... then shove the axle into the wheel to keep the spacer in place, and thru the wheel so you can slip thopposite side external hat shaped spacer on the shaft, then drop the caliper bracket in between it and the swingarm and finish pushing the axle thru.

no big deal, you can do it all sitting on the ground in a parking lot... which I have done many times for people...  not rocket science.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 08:12:52 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline batboy

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 09:23:00 pm »
I was about to go pull the wheel back off when I remembered that I had photos. This pic sure looks like the spacer is present and accounted for, so that's cool.
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Offline SWOJO95

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2018, 10:45:02 pm »
I was about to go pull the wheel back off when I remembered that I had photos. This pic sure looks like the spacer is present and accounted for, so that's cool.

The spacer tube is not shown in that picture, it would most likely be inside the final drive opening, if I remember my C10 well enough? It is that way on the C14.  I believe if it is somehow left out while assembling, when you torque down the axle nut, the wheel will be pushed against the final drive housing, tight, and the rear wheel will not turn at all? I am thinking that is not the issue?

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 11:11:22 pm »
I was about to go pull the wheel back off when I remembered that I had photos. This pic sure looks like the spacer is present and accounted for, so that's cool.

that is not the spacer, that is the bearing's inner race you see in the photo...
there is however another spacer, inside that wheel hub, between the 2 bearings to space them when being pulled together.

the spacer I speak of, ends up in contact with the bearing race you see, on the drive hub side.

as for when it's missing, and the hubs being pulled together, and preventing wheel rotation, it doesn't always occur, sometimes the splines are worn, and notched, making it seem as if it's tight, and a gap may still be present, but shortly after riding like that, the splines reallign, and wear in further, and the wheel goes tight again.. depends on how much wear was on the splines prior.
But yes, worse case is shown immediatly when the wheel and drive housing close up and pinch.

again, I've seen a few instances of the missing spacer, and the results looked like the tire photo...
but, Avon tires have decreased in quality im my opinion, since the Azaro was 'the best' back in '03..
and even those began having issues... 6k miles on an Avon, is about max, I think the best i got when using them on my C10's was around 6k.. and they were shot. Not shot like the o/p's tho... that is totally shot.  bet that one was throwing sparks going down the road... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 11:21:44 pm by MAN OF BLUES »

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Offline JPD

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2018, 12:46:24 pm »
I can see this happening very easily. Torque the rear axle and the wheel is too tight. Think about your old Chevy pickup with tapered wheel bearings and loosen it up a little bit until the wheel turns. I has a cotter pin to keep the nut from coming off. Our bikes do not have tapered bearings. The spacers are on the axle bolt, inside the wheel and drive assembly so you torque up tight on the inner races of all the bearings. The spacers keep everything at the correct places to allow everything to rotate smoothly.
Looking at the OP it looks like the PO put the tire on. Thanks MOB, another thing to look at when you look at a used bike, and the part no. if that is the problem.

Offline connie_rider

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Re: This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2018, 12:04:49 am »
I think this is what your looking for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG1000-Rear-Axle/382394558036?hash=item59087de654:g:ydAAAOSwu~FalggJ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/86-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG1000-Rear-Axle-Drive-Spacer/382394568120?epid=1334763753&hash=item59087e0db8:g:VDsAAOSw~~xalhP0

Ride safe, Ted

if you trust ebay...
no part number is associated with either, just pictures, and as there are 2 different spacers (one inside the rim, between the bearings), who knows...
my response, #15, shows the actual part number...

 :great:

surprisingly, the same part is used on EVERY Concours, from 1986 thru current 2018...C14...

$23 from Ron Ayers.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 12:08:47 am by MAN OF BLUES »

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