Author Topic: Tire suggestion as per riding style  (Read 4683 times)

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Offline V8shadow

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Tire suggestion as per riding style
« on: February 25, 2013, 08:44:28 pm »
  For an 86 that sees 75% two up riding, and 75% or more of that riding being done on roads that dont have "tail of the dragon" type of turns....just mostly normal curves at normal speeds here in Indiana.  I am not a sport style rider as of yet, but would like to hone those turning skills to something better.  I was looking at the Avon combo but I am wondering if I would be buying a purpose built tire that wouldn't be used for it's purpose with me, leaving nothing but a really worn and wide chicken strip down the center of the rear tire, but still needing replaced at about 7K miles!  I would love the stickiest tire I could find but not at the cost of wear life only lasting a couple of oil changes.  It is probably not needed.
  So, given those conditions would tire would be recomended for me?  BTW, what the hell is a "wing size tire"?  Why is the suggeted Avon combo using two model tires instead of the same model?  Are my options open to play around with various sizes or should I stick with OE specs?
Ken
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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 09:04:45 pm »
"Wing size tires" refers to tires sized to fit the GL1500 Goldwing. Tires that size will fit the rim diameters of some of the the C10 models; not sure if they will fit the front rim on an '86.  For the riding style you are describing, you could use the Bridgestone Battleax series (BT45?). That's a bias ply tire but should work well in the situations you describe.  IIRC, Slybones (from Everett, WA) used some for a while.
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Offline V8shadow

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 11:17:03 pm »
  I just realized by re-reading my original post that I didn't include the fact that I plan on taking "Broken Pony" to The Dragon's Tail this June.  So my tire choice would have to also reflect that upcoming event or any future events such as that, but that would be an exception.
Ken
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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 11:51:05 pm »
Wouldn't be a problem. I'll still stand by my suggestion though I would suggest that you PM Slybones for his comments.
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Offline Dave Scott

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 12:56:57 am »
I agree too.  The 45s would be fine, imo.  Don't worry so much about stickiness.  I originally had Dunlop elite 3s on my bike and scraped my pegs with them.. I also managed to squeeze 14k miles out of them.  Modern tire compounds grip well for even spirited street riding.. Just my two cents worth.   :great:

Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 03:21:06 am »
Have you read this thread?

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,25607.0.html

It discusses most of the issues you list.  FYI, you can use a wing size tire in the rear of your '86, but not the front where the rim is too narrow.  I agree that you should be happy with any of the "touring" oriented tires.

HTH,
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Offline Outback Jon

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 12:14:06 pm »
Why is the suggested Avon combo using two model tires instead of the same model?
Because a matching set of tires isn't available in the sizes needed for a C10.

  Are my options open to play around with various sizes or should I stick with OE specs?
There isn't a lot of playing available.  I tend to use the Wing sized tires, and have been happy with them for the most part.  Currently using Shinko 777 tires in Wing-size.  Some folks are converting to 17" rear rims, which gives a lot more tire options.  I think that is going to be my future, as I can't fit a C14 into the budget.

Here's a link to a Google Docs list of tires that are available and fit.
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Offline Ranger Jim

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 12:35:49 pm »
IIRC, the '86 C10's front rim is narrower than the '94 up. I don't think he can put a 'wing sized tire on there.
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Offline Rev Ryder

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 01:11:12 pm »
He CAN get it on there, but I wouldn't do it.  But then I wouldn't have em on my 06 if they hadn't come on there.  Front's comin' off this week as the Pilot GT has a big ol' 8 square inch blister on it.  Hopefully the rear will change before the Wildflower or I'll be slower than molasses. 

My tire choice in stock sizes is the weird Avon mixture.  I've got all of two little contact patches connecting me (or separating me) from terra firma (brukus bonus in my case) and I like them to be sticky.  Dang the fact that I live in flatland now with straight roads.  Two years worth of riding is too long for any set of tires IMHO.  Sticky tires get harder, hard tires turn to rocks all in a relatively short time once put into service.  Sticky ain't just for twisties... it's for going, stopping, and breathing.  I'll buy a new set three times per year if need be if it helps keep me off my helmet.  Just my .02
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Offline Dave Scott

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 02:55:14 pm »
a couple things just to add to Rev's good points.  First, stick with the 110 on the front of yours for better steering response.  besides the fact that the wing size will be overly wide for your rim, it will slow responsiveness of the steering.  Second, to my previous post about using the E3s and my mileage, I ride over 10k per year.  Rev is right about how long you plan to have the tires on your bike based on your riding/mileage.  That should be part of your consideration.

good points Rev!!

Offline WillyP

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 03:25:53 pm »
I put the GT's on the front and rear of my '88. Yes, the steering is a bit heavy, but not a huge amount. It does make the bike extremely stable with tar snakes, grooved/ uneven pavement, etc... and it feels a huge amount better when dealing with truck wake.

So I think the Pilots would be a good choice for long distance, mostly slab, commuting and generally not so twisty riding. If you could even buy them anymore.

For comparison, I have Avon's on the '01, and what a world of difference. Feels like the bike lost a hundred pounds.

Now since neither the GT's, nor the Avon's I have are available I don't know how this translates to what tires are available. How much is this difference attributable to size, how much to tire design, tread pattern?
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Offline V8shadow

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 08:07:25 pm »
I sent a PM to Slybones, but I don't think it is sending since I can't see it in my SENT box.
Ken
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Offline GF-in-CA

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 08:31:18 pm »
You may not have turned on the option to save messages when sent.  If that's the case your message will be sent but not show up in your sent box.
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Offline Slybones

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2013, 03:41:32 am »
Well given the comments I think I would go with the BT45's.  On the front I got 16K and not on the wear bars yet. On 2 sets of fronts. On the rear I got 10K on 2 sets and 12K on the last one.  -- Currently on my 4th BT45 rear. On the front I went with a PR3 this last time.  -- So yes at this time I am mixing bias ply and radial tires, I am mixing them in the wrong direction ( radial front and bias rear -VS- bias front and radial rear ). Yup I am going to die.

I have the PR3 in 110/80-18 which should fit the '86 wheel fine, and in the rear the stock 150/80-16 which of couse will also fit.

There are a few who have  been trying the PR3 / Commander II combo and seem to like it. One report hower from that group was the Commander II not having the best wet traction. This got my interest in trying the PR3 with the BT45. The BT45's have great traction and the BT45's are a 'sport touring' tire not a 'cruiser' tire. So I think its a better match to the PR3, albeit it wont get as good of mileage as the Commander option.

I have not noticed anything in terms of handling issues or feel switching from the BT45 Front and Rear to the new PR3 / BT45 combo. I think it steers nice, etc. I think the PR3 does not track tar snakes and grooves as much as the BT45 did. Seems more stable in this regard. Assuming the mileage is decent on the PR3, this is my new combo.

-----------------------

As far as a choice between the Avon Storm/Azaro combo and the BT45's, the BT45's would be the choice in this case. The BT45's will be close in traction, cost a lot less and get somewhat better mileage. However they are still a sport touring tire and not a touring tire. Dont expect Wing Tire mileage from them. You can see what I got from them above. -- Avon Road Riders are also in this goup. There are a number of bias ply, sport touring tires that come in the 110/80-18 and 150/80-16 sizes that handle nice, great traction, slightly better mileage than the Avon combo and costs much less.

Having said that, the Azaro rear is the real problem with the Storm2 / Azaro combo. This last year Avon released the Azaro dual compound. And we know some COG members have them now. Not sure its been long enough to get mileage reports. This will help that combo a bunch.
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Offline Jorge

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2013, 04:08:59 pm »
FWIW... I bought my 2005 with Dunlop front, and BT45 rear. 8500 miles later, rear was gone, front mostly.
Replaced with Dunlops at both ends, ran them about 9000 miles.
Replaced them with Storm2/Azaro combo. 10,000 miles later, rear gone, front looks good.
Just received my new Azaro from Dennis Kirk (Date code 2712); we'll see if it lasts any more than the 1st Azaro.
I saw better mileage with the Azaro than with the BT45... go figure.
I love the Avon combo. Much more responsive, pretty much immune to highway grooves.
Has anyone tabulated the miles from different tires?  I mean just a histogram of how many miles different tires give, regardless of how they're ridden?
I know there is a spreadsheet that has some, but it would be interesting to have charts (I'm visual and love charts)

Offline V8shadow

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2013, 02:00:10 am »
  Now see Jorge, I finally think I have made my decison, and then you go and screw things up with an actual decent mileage report from Avons.  Bottom line is cost in a non issue to me IF I know I am getting quality AND that quality lasts a bit.  There are guys who report 6K out of a set of Avons.  Now, to me THAT is just ridiculous.
  I wonder though, are these low mileage reports the result of hard cornering/riding styles?  I remember when I was always putting new Goodyear Eagles on my 97 Cobra Mustang.  Those tires wore fast, but I know that I also put those treads through thier paces, driving the Cobra like it was meant to be driven.
  So, you guys that are report the low miles on Avons......is that matching my riding style stated above OR is it after a season of good "Isle of Man TT" style riding?  LOL.  Of course I exagerrate, but you get the idea. 
Ken
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Offline Jorge

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2013, 02:40:47 am »
Sorry Ken...
There were several thousand miles of slabbing (55 miles each way commute), but it wasn't all that way.
I will also admit that the last thousand or so the tire developed a funky wear pattern that made it leas fun than it was    but I still felt  safe on it.
Enjoy the confusion!

Offline odie

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2013, 05:34:37 pm »
  I just realized by re-reading my original post that I didn't include the fact that I plan on taking "Broken Pony" to The Dragon's Tail this June.  So my tire choice would have to also reflect that upcoming event or any future events such as that, but that would be an exception.

the Dragon is irrevevant for your tire choice....riding abilities, not your tires, will determine if you tame the Dragon...I ran it with a heavily loaded Softail and skinny front tire...
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Offline V8shadow

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 01:29:03 am »
  I just realized by re-reading my original post that I didn't include the fact that I plan on taking "Broken Pony" to The Dragon's Tail this June.  So my tire choice would have to also reflect that upcoming event or any future events such as that, but that would be an exception.

the Dragon is irrevevant for your tire choice....riding abilities, not your tires, will determine if you tame the Dragon...I ran it with a heavily loaded Softail and skinny front tire...

Oh believe me I understand that.  I was just including the dragon riding I anticipate to get put a whole picture across as to what kind of riding I will be doing with these tires.  The fact that most of my riding will be taking non canyon type of curves, but that the chance of riding those kind of curves is still there.
Ken
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Offline Uglydog56

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 03:24:13 pm »
Although l may need to watch for lightning as I type this, you may want to look at the E3 or else (gulp) the Metzeler me880.  I hate the Metzeler with a passion, but here in the PNW the road surface doesn't get hot enough to eat soft tires, and there are plenty of twisties to keep you busy.  The heat and straight roads may make a harder tire more appropriate for your use, especially if you park the bike in the winter. 
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Offline V8shadow

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2013, 08:11:24 pm »
I gotta say, shopping for tires for this bike is NOT easy.  This really sucks.  Some of the websites dont even list the size I need at all. :truce:  I decided on the avons, to maybe get ahold of some of the newer multi compound tires, but theses sites dont list the same tire.  For example the Storm can be found as Storm, Storm 2, Storm 2 ultra, or just AV55?  Same is being found on the Azaro type.  I think I might just call these people as opposed to shop online.  Just when I thought online was so much easier. ???
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 08:17:02 pm by v8shadow »
Ken
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Offline Bruiser

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2013, 08:23:56 pm »
I ran Avons for many years and thought they were great. They are long wearing and great in the rain. Check out Youtube and type in "Concours on Avons". You will be impressed.
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Offline Jorge

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2013, 11:54:15 pm »
I was able to get the 2712 date Code Azaro from Dennis Kirk when I ordered on-line. At least one called as specifically asked them to select one by date code, and they did!  Might make it worthwhile to call them if you know the pricing already. I saw prices for the Azaro (I only needed rear at this time) ranging from $226 to $145... can yo believe it? I got it for $149, but they are good and fast (Ordered tire Monday 9:30 PM, received Wednesday afternoon - $5 shipping charge).
Do a search for "Avon Azaro 150" and you should get hits for the size we need.
BTW, mine is now on, at 150+ miles on it, and counting...  It was a really nice day today.
Jorge

Offline V8shadow

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 02:13:22 am »
  Wait a minute here.....I just read the Azaro is actually a BIAS ply tire?? :o  Nothing I read told me that.  I actually kind of looked down on bias plys like they were old fashioned, yet the  radial storm along with the bias Azaro combo is one of the most popular I have seen so far besides the BT45s.  I guess it is ok to mix bias and radial then.  Just to clarify, because even the Avon site is misleading.....the front storm is a dual compound tire already right?  No need to check for date codes on the storm?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 02:18:09 am by v8shadow »
Ken
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Offline Slybones

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Re: Tire suggestion as per riding style
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 05:19:24 am »
I thought the Azaro rear was a radial.  The BT45's are bias plys.  Some will tell you, you cannot mix bias plies and radials. Yet there are actually motorcycle MFG's that sell them like that. I believe its a bias front and radial rear. Not the other way around. I also believe ( I looked it up about a year ago ) in the UK where vehicles have to meet yearly inspections that are not just emissions, but full blown all out inspections, the tire law is that if you have a bias on the front, you can have a bias or radial on the rear. But if you have a radial on the front, you must have a radial on the rear.  So you can mix them, but only bias front / radial rear. Unfortunately for the C10 owner, finding radials for the front is not too bad, especially in the 110/80 size. But finding them for the rear, there are basically 2. The Azaro rear and the factory Dunflop K700 rear. So you will find a few C10 owners trying the radial front / bias rear combo. Even though its not legal in the UK, and no MFG's will say its ok, I have not died from it, yet...
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