Author Topic: Went and "winged" the Connie  (Read 7918 times)

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Offline RWJC

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Went and "winged" the Connie
« on: December 11, 2011, 10:44:32 pm »
Was looking to put the wing size ties on to get far more weight sustained, since my current ones only supported 520 lbs, I needed a higher weight rating. I did much research and came across these at RockyMountain ATV, one of the sponsors here. I am attaching some pics, and will keep you updated as I add milage on. Have not ridden much lately due to repairs, but plan too after the holidays.  They are the DURO BLVD series. not for the twists..but for general purpose wet/dry.
Front 130/70-18 (600lbs)






Rear 160/80-16 (853lbs)



~RWJC
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Offline ManWorkingHere

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 01:25:05 pm »
and came across these at RockyMountain ATV, one of the sponsors here.

+1 on different tires, and buying them from RM ATV.
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Offline wild man

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 04:25:48 pm »
So whatcha pay?  I needed a front tire and bought a Kenda 673, 105 $shipped.
Bill
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Offline RWJC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 09:11:04 pm »
Are ya sitting down????   $139.98 for the SET..SHIPPED...!!! YUP!     :P

I used the money I saved and put nitrogen in the tires and shock. BIG difference in handling and cornering. But so far on 80 miles seems well worth it. Did my son's bike too...he noticed better handle & corner. EX500R.

Will update this thread every 4K miles or so...so I can see the wear and life of the tires.
~RWJC
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Offline wild man

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 01:59:25 am »
Just recieved the front Kenda today and its a little wider than I expected, more so than the 880 currently on front, so its going back >:(
Bill
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Offline JC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 03:07:58 am »
I see the tires are 1 size larger than stock. Did you notice any change in RPM's from the larger rear tire? Do they fit the bike ok?

Offline wild man

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 12:37:32 pm »
I've only have expierience with Metzeler 880 in wing size.  The front will last about 23K miles and will slightly under register the first 5K or so and be almost perfect the rest of its life.  The OEM Dunlop will over register from the get go and be 3-5 percent off buy the time its worn out, 12K miles.  The rear will drop the rpms on the freeway  about 400 to 500 when new.  No issues with clearance on either end and I just repalced my rear at 22K miles. 

Keep in mind this is not a sport tire by any means so performance in the rain will suffer.  Having said that I've just burned through my 4th set and am generally happy with them for long distance riding
Bill
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Offline rick3foxes

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 02:00:32 pm »
Just recieved the front Kenda today and its a little wider than I expected, more so than the 880 currently on front, so its going back >:(

Bill, what size Kenda is too wide? 
Did it not fit, or just didn't look right?


I'm considering the Kenda Kruz on Chaparral:

110/90-18    $56.88  (No 130/70-18 available)
160/80-16    $97.88

OR:

Shinko SR733/734:

130/70-18   $76.88
160/80-16   $98.88

I have no idea which brand is better handling or longer lasting.

Thanks,
Rick.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 02:32:30 pm by rick3foxes »
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Offline RWJC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2011, 02:00:56 am »
My son has the Kenda on his bike...I'd save the $$ and get the DURO...Rockmtn ATV! I rode his bike and that Kenda tends to "slide" in dry corners...not very stable. I have 150 mi on these tires, and took a 60 degree corner leaned at 45-50, no issues. That was a 5/6 tank of gas. I do not like the Kenda, but the reviews and ride on the Duro have been good. I hoe to have 1200 mi by end of December to give a better review...
~RWJC
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Offline wild man

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 12:29:01 pm »
Quote
Bill, what size Kenda is too wide? 
Did it not fit, or just didn't look right?


I'm considering the Kenda Kruz on Chaparral:

110/90-18    $56.88  (No 130/70-18 available)
160/80-16    $97.88

OR:

Shinko SR733/734:

130/70-18   $76.88
160/80-16   $98.88

I bought the Kenda kruz K673.  Dennis Kirk had it listed at 4.4 width installed and when I compressed the beads to three inches (our rim width) I couldn’t get the width to drop below 5.  Maybe installation would've changed that but I wasn’t willing to risk $105 to find out.  Clearance at the fender brace is about .20 inch on both side with the 130/70 metzeler 880, it’s listed at 4.5 inches and that's its width installed or sitting on the shelf at the dealer.

I'm thinking that 110/90-18 is too tall.  Remember 110 is the width and 90 is the aspect ratio, so 110 X 90 equals 99 or 99 mm of height from the rim.  Stock for the late model Connie is 120/70 and 110/80 for the early model.  This work out to 84mm and 88 respectively, my favorite is 130/70 which is 91.  Some have contended that the 110/80 is closer to what should have been used on the late model Connie to begin with.  Do a search this site for 110 X 90 but I wouldn’t use the size.  As far as the Shinko SR733/734's go it was either this site or the ZG fanatics site that a number of people had issues with delamination or tread separation, I myself am holding out for the Shinko SE890's in radial, until then its Metzeler all the way!     



 
Bill
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Offline RWJC

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Re: DURO UPDATE
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2011, 04:10:59 pm »
Well, could not sleep for much last night...why? Glad you asked...

I was on my way home from work, there was a drizzle for about 20-30 min, so no worries. Tires were broke in with over 270 mi on them. The road I was on is new concrete construction (interstate slab) and is very good road. I travel it everyday, and have for the 9+mo it has been open. Last night tho, I like to lost it, and almost did...

As I said in an earlier post, I spent quite a bit $$ to put nitrogen in the tires for consistent pressure with the hot/cold we have been having. So I was not any more concerned this morning than any other day or time. I was riding down no standing water & good lighting on a very mild lean when my front began sliding..instinct had me straighten up and slow down.  Few miles up the same road, I had a light that changed and had to stop...the front tire began sliding on the road and I was not even at 3/4 braking yet. I had a dunlop OEM before this and ridden in HEAVY rain and never had this issue. I released and coasted thru the light, luckily @ 2:30am nobody was there!. I pulled over at the next station and checked the tire...pressure at 46psi, I ran my hands over the entire tires found no chemicals or substance other than water. The rest of the trip I "crawled" home out of fear mostly. luckily I practice braking and emergency maneuvers weekly, so I was prepared...but I am not and will not get back on the road with those tires again...especially since it is supposed to rain for a whole week. Luckily, I did not have to qualify for my CDA....
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 06:48:57 pm by RWJC »
~RWJC
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Offline 2linby

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Re: DURO UPDATE
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2011, 07:49:08 pm »
Well, could not sleep for much last night...why? Glad you asked...

I was on my way home from work, there was a drizzle for about 20-30 min, so no worries. Tires were broke in with over 270 mi on them. The road I was on is new concrete construction (interstate slab) and is very good road. I travel it everyday, and have for the 9+mo it has been open. Last night tho, I like to lost it, and almost did...

As I said in an earlier post, I spent quite a bit $$ to put nitrogen in the tires for consistent pressure with the hot/cold we have been having. So I was not any more concerned this morning than any other day or time. I was riding down no standing water & good lighting on a very mild lean when my front began sliding..instinct had me straighten up and slow down.  Few miles up the same road, I had a light that changed and had to stop...the front tire began sliding on the road and I was not even at 3/4 braking yet. I had a dunlop OEM before this and ridden in HEAVY rain and never had this issue. I released and coasted thru the light, luckily @ 2:30am nobody was there!. I pulled over at the next station and checked the tire...pressure at 46psi, I ran my hands over the entire tires found no chemicals or substance other than water. The rest of the trip I "crawled" home out of fear mostly. luckily I practice braking and emergency maneuvers weekly, so I was prepared...but I am not and will not get back on the road with those tires again...especially since it is supposed to rain for a whole week. Luckily, I did not have to qualify for my CDA....

So are you saying the high pressure in the tires might be the cause of your slide? or the tires themselves?  What was your static pressure before you rode?  I think and I am sure others will chime in, that 46 psi is way too much pressure up front. Id oubt that the riding conditions EG: wet nightime and cold to cool temps, would have raised your "normal static tire pressure" up to 46 psi unless you where already at or above 42 psi.  Whether or not this in itself is the primary contributor to your slide is up to conjecture, but I think it could be a contributing factor. However without a comparison based on similar conditions with lower pressures one cannot with any concussion determine if the pressure was the primary contributor or the tire itself is just squirrelly in the rain.  This wouldn't be the first time with a less expensive brand.

BTW where the tires scrubbed in yet?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 07:51:13 pm by 2linby »
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Offline wild man

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 12:30:54 am »
Like Bob said 46PSI is just to high.  One of the cool things about nitrogen is its ability to maintain consistant air pressure across a wide range of ambient temp and pressure, check your sidewall for pressure recomendations (check when the tire is cold only) and never exceed them.  My 880's max is 42 cold and I run them between 38 and 42, usually 40

Is the concrete grooved or non grooved?  Sometimes the non-grooved, especially when new,  can be slick.  Add in near freezing temps or lower with a dash of moisture ie.. black ice and you can have a literal skating rink in the blink of an eye.

Or I suppose you could just have real crappy tires. are these the Duro's?     
Bill
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Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2011, 04:01:51 am »
I know folks are trying to save a buck or two, but why would you trust your life to cheap Chinacrap tires? These tires are designed and manufactured to a price point, from the folks that have know qualms about putting poison in baby formula.

You may want to think about that.

I put this tire on the front:

https://www.denniskirk.com/michelin/front-pilot-road-3-110-80zr-18-blackwall-tire.p543964.prd/543964.sku

a Michelin PR3, 110/80/zr18

Now I am frugal('99 C-10), and cheap(KLR), but this tire, just plain works. So far it has 12k mi, should get a couple more, it rides smooth, turns in nicely, holds a line, and flat out hooks up in the rain. It's $126 shipped to your door. That is less than one penny per mile, for a new tech, premium tire. I'd even use it if it cost a whole penny per mile.  ;)
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Offline ChipDoc

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2011, 06:09:21 am »
These tires are designed and manufactured to a price point, from the folks that have know qualms about putting poison in baby formula.

Not to diminish the horrifying nature of that crime, but the Chinese DID execute the two people in charge of that plant, one more got a suspended death sentence and another 18 were jailed for between two years and life.  Read about it HERE.

Much as it might feel good to blame "the Chinese" it seems as if they did their best to act honorably in this case.  Bad craziness happens over here in the States too, but our courts don't generally act with such intensity.

That said, I put Metzler ME880s on Connie.

Offline RWJC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 09:52:55 pm »
Actually, this tire calls for a 41PSI COLD, so about 45-48 hot. Since I use nitrogen, it is not affected by temp. According to racers I met, it would take a temp difference greater that 40deg to affect tire pressure...

BUT, that was not the issue...I took them to a local guy that tracks quite often, he took one look at the tire, then a picture, walked away and came back with this HUGE wire brush. He took a few good hard swipes and I could immediately see a difference. Apparently this MFG has a heavier coating on its tires than Dunlop or Avon. We worked the tires down to rubber and went and rode about 10 miles, some emergency maneuvers and some braking. Took another picture. The difference was noticeable. It looks and feels like a more supple rubber. Put the wife on and all our gear, stuff in the bags, and some emergency braking. Works like a charm. Good stopping. Some swerving, some heavy turns, al performed well. after a bit of riding, got it up to 80, and much more stable than the old tires, and seem to grip very well now in the dry. Its about 60 here.
It is supposed to rain again Mon or Tues, so will go try the wet again cautiously & slowly at first. Will report back then.

Thanks for all the info, but please remember(unless someone has more experience with nitrogen fled tires) that the pressure does not change but 1-2 PSI. not 6-8 like plain air. Also, nitrogen is heaver so I am told, but I can't make it stay on the scale..keeps blowing off. LOL :-[

I'll post back when it rains. Also, these are Taiwan brand. They have a Corporation in GA, but the information I found places the MFG in Taiwan. But also have a stateside plant. So not sure...  Now that the coating is off, they seem to be performing better. I'l be back Tues or Wed to update.
~RWJC
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Offline wild man

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2011, 03:03:42 pm »
Quote
Actually, this tire calls for a 41PSI COLD, so about 45-48 hot

I have a little knowledge of about nitrogen since I work in an aviation repair facility.

My concern was you said your tire pressure 46PSI using nitrogen, that probably works out to 46 to 44 PSI cold and that by itself could be an issue if the manufactor of your tire stated 38 PSI is the cold max.  I know with common air a cold PSI can jump 6, 8 or even 10 degrees when the tire is hot but is that someting you really want to explore with nitrogen?  I'd check with the tire manufactor on that first as I dont think I'd try it.  Your racer buddies could be well intended but they could also be dead wrong 
Bill
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Offline Bergmen

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Re: DURO UPDATE
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2011, 03:16:39 pm »
As I said in an earlier post, I spent quite a bit $$ to put nitrogen in the tires for consistent pressure with the hot/cold we have been having....


Nitrogen behaves no differently than atmospheric air when it comes to pressure vs. temperature for a given volume. All gasses are subject to the same pressure-temperature law:

"The pressure of a gas of fixed mass and fixed volume is directly proportional to the gas' absolute temperature."

Linky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-Lussac%27s_law

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Offline RWJC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2011, 06:28:36 pm »
Thx Dan and wildman..as an IT person, I am VERY weary of wiki...so I asked for some info and got this site:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=191

I won't repost the whole thing..but here is some relay...

"Pure nitrogen has been used to inflate critical tire applications for years, primarily because it doesn't support moisture or combustion. These include racing tires (IndyCar, Formula 1, NASCAR), aircraft tires (commercial and military) and heavy-duty equipment tires (earthmovers and mining equipment). The challenge facing nitrogen inflation hasn't been its application, it's been its method of supply and cost.

Nitrogen molecules have a more difficult time escaping through the microscopic spaces that exist between a tire's rubber molecules. Nitrogen is a "slow" inactive gas labeled as an inert gas due to its nonreactive nature with many materials. Oxygen on the other hand is a "fast" active gas that reacts with many materials called "oxidation." Additionally nitrogen is a dry gas that doesn't support moisture while oxygen combined with hydrogen makes water (H2O)."

But my guy was wrong on one point...

"
* Nitrogen is a gas and is still affected by changes in ambient temperature (about one psi for every 10° Fahrenheit). Nitrogen filled tires will require pressure be added during the fall/winter months as ambient temperatures and tire pressures drop. Nitrogen is good but can't change the laws of physics.
* Nitrogen reduces the loss of tire pressure due to permeation through rubber over time by about 1/3. This helps maintain the vehicle's required tire pressures a little longer, but doesn’t eliminate the need for monthly tire pressure checks. This is good for people who don’t maintain their vehicles well.
* Nitrogen is non-corrosive and will reduce oxidation and rust due to the absence of oxygen and moisture. This will help minimize wheel corrosion to promote better bead sealing. Tires that are used routinely will be replaced long before any life benefit would be received by using Nitrogen. This is most beneficial for drivers who drive their vehicles infrequently (car collectors, track drivers, snow tire users, motor home owners, etc).
* Nitrogen is a dry gas and will not support moisture that could contribute to corrosion of the tire’s steel components (bead, sidewall reinforcement and belts) due to the absence of moisture over extended periods of time. However it’s important to remember that atmospheric pressure is constantly pushing oxygen and moisture into the rubber from the outside of the tire. This is especially good for low mileage drivers who don't wear out their tires quickly or those that run average annual mileages but use long wearing radial (60K and 80K warranted) tires.
Nitrogen assures more consistent pressure increases due to increases in operating temperatures in a racing environment because of the absence of moisture. This is especially good for participants in track days, high-performance drivers education schools and road racing.
"

So I will go recheck my pressures again, and deflate as needed. 46 was to high  :o  ...It is about 56 outside now, and cool, so should have a good reading....BRB..
~RWJC
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Offline RWJC

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speedo and new tires
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 04:36:43 am »
I believe my speedo is now off 5-8mph @55mph..possibly 10-13 at 70...My son followed me home on his ex500R, and I thought I was doing 65..he was doing 65 and I was quickly 1/2 mi ahead of him...can a speedo be adjusted??
~RWJC
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"Dress for the crash, not for the ride."
02'VN800-SOLD 59,348mi 02'ZG1000-GONE 05'Nomad-SOLD   05'ZG1000-(12/1)5500mi(1/1)8220mi

Offline ChipDoc

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 11:02:12 am »
Electronic speedos can be adjusted electronically.  The mechanical one on my C10 changes as my front tire wears.  Wear makes the front tire smaller in circumference, so each revolution gives you slightly less movement down the road than a new tire.  If your front tire is new and your son's front tire is worn, there could easily be several mph difference at the same displayed speed.

You can get aftermarket electronic speedos which have a magnet and sensor combo that you mount on your wheel and frame.  Bicyclists have been using them for 30 years.  When properly set up, they'll give you a dead-on correct speed.  Another option is to use a GPS, which will also give you a dead-on speed and then convert your speedo reading in your head.  If the GPS is showing that you're running 42 and the speedo's showing 45, you can ride at 48 (on the speedo) and know that you're still running within the speed limit, whether the GPS is mounted or not.

Offline SmokinRZ

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2011, 03:45:29 pm »

You may want to think about that.

I put this tire on the front:

https://www.denniskirk.com/michelin/front-pilot-road-3-110-80zr-18-blackwall-tire.p543964.prd/543964.sku

Wow, I love Michelin tires and might have to give this one a try.  If only they made a matching rear.  I have another Z6 waiting to go on the front but i'm trying a 110/80 this time.  What do you run on the back?



Offline SteveJ.

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 03:45:02 pm »

You may want to think about that.

I put this tire on the front:

https://www.denniskirk.com/michelin/front-pilot-road-3-110-80zr-18-blackwall-tire.p543964.prd/543964.sku

Wow, I love Michelin tires and might have to give this one a try.  If only they made a matching rear.  I have another Z6 waiting to go on the front but i'm trying a 110/80 this time.  What do you run on the back?

Avon Venom AM42, 150/80/HB/16. Note, they also have the same size with a VB speed rating, thinner tread, 9 vs 11/32nds.

Seems to be a nice combo. Nice easy turn in, holds nice and steady on cornering, smoother riding that a Pilot GT for sure, stable on the slab dealing with big truck wind blast.  The rear is new, the front is about done.  No weird cupping, probably due to the siping.  Anxious to see how this all works out with a fresh front, especially as the first 5k mi were on a slab trip to MN.  I'm thinkin' I'll really like the combo at that time.
Yeah, if you want true ram air tuning, you better be willing to ram some air! (SiSF)
Tick Tock, baby (Ironbuttal)
Steve J  Tavares, FL, one of the Floriduh Steves
'15 Versys650LT, '98 KLR650, (back home), '99 C-10, 234k miles sold

Offline RWJC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2011, 07:34:37 am »
I'll update this every 3-5k miles or so, at current, that may be every month or 1.5 or so. I have over 1800 miles since i put them on. So far, so good. Have not put them to a deep test yet, once I get e few more miles will test them, and I change out my front brakes.
~RWJC
COG #9827
"Dress for the crash, not for the ride."
02'VN800-SOLD 59,348mi 02'ZG1000-GONE 05'Nomad-SOLD   05'ZG1000-(12/1)5500mi(1/1)8220mi

Offline RWJC

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Re: Went and "winged" the Connie
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2011, 05:04:17 am »
almost 600 miles, the rear seems to be doing well, weight, fusion, and handling. The front..still kinda scary in the corners, and seems to be giving me a "bumpy" ride. Rolled the tire while on stand, seems smooth, pressure is 42 (40cold), but just does not track well. I'm contacting RM ATV TO SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE...
~RWJC
COG #9827
"Dress for the crash, not for the ride."
02'VN800-SOLD 59,348mi 02'ZG1000-GONE 05'Nomad-SOLD   05'ZG1000-(12/1)5500mi(1/1)8220mi