Author Topic: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock  (Read 5098 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AirMonger

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 535
  • AREA: South Central Area
  • COG#: 10838
  • Membership Level: Active
Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« on: December 16, 2012, 12:03:07 am »
Ok, got a smokin' deal on a low mileage shock, just what we are all looking for right? Installed it last weekend, jumped thru all the hoops with the difference in the linkage ( which fortunately came with it ) and it went as well as I could have hoped for. Now I need to get it right. I don't care for the extra height (I am 6' 1") and even though I still sit flat footed, I don't care for the arse in the air feeling that it gives. I have heard all the hype about sharper steering, however if that is truely what I was looking to gain I would still be riding a sport bike. Now this is the million dollar question. I have seen numerous responses to this question and most all were answered by "get lowering links". The real question now is who's links, are the aimed specifically at the c10 or is this something else that has modifed to fit our bikes? Any information would be greatly appreciated, love the ride difference, but not the stance.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:09:41 am by AirMonger »
"It usually takes 20 years before people begin to appreciate a good design." Kevin Cameron

Offline Bob_C_CT

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2214
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 9544
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 11:05:37 am »
I also have a ZZR shock that I am going to be installing soon. I thought that this shock maybe raised an half inch or so, not very noticeable compared to using a C14 shock.
Did you modify and use the C10 linkage?

Norm Soucy's 1 1/2" lowering links, Not sure if he is still fabricating them.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 12:03:13 pm by Bob_C_CT »
Southern Connecticut.
97 C10,ZRX Front, Meanstreak rim

Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 02:45:19 pm »
The ZZR shock is only a 1/4 inch or so longer than the C10 shock. Use the C10 linkage. Disgard the ZZR parts except for the lower bolt and bushing where the shock bolts at the bottom.  On the top the bushing is about 1mm wider and need a trim. But I assume you already did that if you have it mounted.

So for the bottom.....

Connie part on the right, ZZR on the left. These are the items you need. On the Bottom this will bolt right up.


On the botton this is the stock block, stock levers, etc. The ZZR mounting point and bushing are slightly wider than the Connie block. Common solution is to shim with a couple washers. You can see my washer in the pic too. In the second pic you can see a few options I had out in the garage. I used the one on the far right. Its pretty thin. The one in the middle would be ok, but too thick.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 02:49:36 pm by Slybones »
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004

Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 02:47:18 pm »
On the C14 shock, which is also an option, its quite a bit longer. There the lowering link is the solution to the increased height. With the ZZR shock and the stock Connie levers, this is not necessary as the lengths are so close.
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004

Offline flaboy

  • Tricycle
  • Posts: 25
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8909
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 02:24:44 am »
Or you can drop Norm Soucy an email asking him about his lower links at
sanleonster AT gmail.com

He just made up about 20 new ones that he is getting bearing pressed into them right now
these will bring everything back to what normal was for you. There are quite a few of us that have done this option when we converted over to a ZZR or the C14 shock

Offline Wess

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 521
  • I had sooner lose my arm than live under tyranny!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 8010
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 11:31:39 pm »
I noticed a little difference in the ZZR then I got the C14 and at a 34" inseam I am almost on tip toes but damn the ride is awesome.
Respectfully Yours! 
Wess Heavner 
Independence, MO 
COG #8010 CDA #0239 ROK# ROK100027795  AMA# 2952749 IBA #38420 2009 Hard Luck Award Winner!

Offline Daytona_Mike

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2363
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 12:24:06 am »
I measured my bike when I went from a stiff heavily springed progressive shock and installed a brand new  ZZR1200 shock only about 2 months ago.
No change in height at all. The shock is not nearly as  good as the progressive shock but much better than the stock c10 shock.

If you bike is higher than 1/4 inch you did something wrong or what you had before was shorter or had no air in it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 12:26:44 am by Daytona_Mike »
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
2011  KTM 530    This thing is FUN!!

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 09:58:52 pm »
Hhmm...I have seen in a previous post that the ZZR shock is 'approximately' 1/4 inch longer than the 'stock' C-10 shock. Now I paid more attention to the geometry teacher than I did to the actual geometry, and no I'm not going there, but if you add an additional ~1/4 inch of downward movement to the linkage at the shock pivot, it will equate to downward movement at the dogbones, although it is lessened it is movement. This downward dog movement, and no not the 20 minute workout downward dog you guys used to ogle a few winters ago, will draw down the lever (in this case the swingarm) resulting in a downward movement of the axle. Agree?

You long legged fellas don't notice a change in height as much as the people who almost never hit their head on overhead stuff. Just sayin.
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 02:40:55 am »
I love that one...'find X'. I really wanted to put that on a calculus test, but I was working for every point I could get.
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline Wess

  • Street Cruiser
  • ****
  • Posts: 521
  • I had sooner lose my arm than live under tyranny!
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: 8010
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 01:12:33 pm »
nightmares not the dreaded 3 4 5 triangle  :-\

The only problem is that they donot sit in there at a right angle
Respectfully Yours! 
Wess Heavner 
Independence, MO 
COG #8010 CDA #0239 ROK# ROK100027795  AMA# 2952749 IBA #38420 2009 Hard Luck Award Winner!

Offline Bob_C_CT

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2214
  • AREA: Northeast Area
  • COG#: 9544
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 06:40:13 pm »
I found x it is circled in the drawing :))
Southern Connecticut.
97 C10,ZRX Front, Meanstreak rim

Offline 2linby

  • Iron Butt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3711
  • I rode today, did you?
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 5539
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 02:42:22 am »
So that quarter inch at the dogbone translates to what at the rear axle?

Seeing that everyone here is a Trigomometry expert..... :-[ Figure three times the offset for your actual drop in "seat height"   .25 offset  = .75 (approx) actual drop.
"2linby" Get it? "Tooling by" "Everything is simple, but nothing is easy".
Ex NWAD, AAD, COG #5539, IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor, Mentor 2001 Sonic Blue  166K and counting!
http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BBG)
http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip

Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 05:33:57 pm »
Well I think your using the wrong math for this situation. The additional 1/4 inch in length of the ZZR1200 shock is not adding up to an additional 3/4 inch in seat height, assuming things were done the way most of us have done it. And that is using the stock Connie dog bones, center link, etc.  When I read this thread I see:

Quote
jumped thru all the hoops with the difference in the linkage ( which fortunately came with it )

Quote
if you receive the lower linkage with it you get all the good stuff to make it a straight forward swap

Quote
install the ZZR shock with all the pre-requisite juggling of hardware necessary to make the install complete

This all leads me to believe that more was changed than just the shock. When I did mine, and I believe most others have, not done any juggling of hardware. You only need the right bushing, nut and bolt. Getting the lower linkage with the shock means you get the bushing, nut and bolt with it. However I am betting there are some who have done this and never got the lower linkage with the shock. And the install went just fine. They only need to purchase the right bushing extra, externally from a place like Ron Ayers, or a local dealer.

Even here in this thread there is many posts about not noticing any effect. AirMonger is the only thread I can even recall hearing where a height difference was noticeable using a ZZR shock ( not a C14 shock. C14 shocks are different ). And I seriously doubt this is because all the rest of us are too tall to notice and AirMonger is the only person short enough to notice.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 05:37:58 pm by Slybones »
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 09:04:45 pm »
Okay...Just finished installing the ZZR shock that has been guarding my workbench for FAR tooo long.

Anyway...

06 Concours with stock linkage removing stock lame a** shock, my finding is that the stock C10 shock and ZZR1200 shock are essentially the same length. No noticeable difference. Sorry no pics, camera crapped itself after last road trip. Wheel movement in reference to axle after install was nil. Even set up a 'mic' on a mount and the change is not even worth mentioning.

So my math is....C10 shock E2E = ZZR1200 shock E2E.

I refrain from further speculation at this time.   :motonoises:
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline Daytona_Mike

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2363
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 11:11:01 pm »
AirMonger,
On your very first post you said the ZZR  shock came with links?  Did you  use those links? Why?
You only use the stock Connie links.

I see Slybones  told you the same thing.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 11:31:12 pm by Daytona_Mike »
Normally aspirated engines have perpetual turbo lag
2000 Red C10 1052 kit 100+HP  + way more torque.
2008  C14 Silver Dammit Full AreaP- Flies are put back in SISF_Flash
2011  KLR650   688 piston ported and polished
2011  KTM 530    This thing is FUN!!

Offline 2fast

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1926
  • Red hair & black leather, my favorite color scheme
    • ZG Heat Shields
  • AREA: North Central Area
  • COG#: Forum
  • Membership Level: Forum Subscriber
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 02:27:34 am »
Sly and Mike, I think you guys nailed it on using ZZ linkage causing the problem. As you know Mike, I have the same shock and I can not tell one iota of height difference from stock.
Brian in Minnesota

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2013, 03:22:32 am »
Sly and Mike, I think you guys nailed it on using ZZ linkage causing the problem. As you know Mike, I have the same shock and I can not tell one iota of height difference from stock.

Second that.

As stated previously, I did this swap last week and the axle actually dropped less than and 1/8 inch after the swap. I purposely set up a stand and a micrometer to gauge the change in axle location just for this scenario. I do appreciate the nudge to get it done, bike feels much more planted...now about that wobbly fork...
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2013, 01:44:42 pm »
Hhmmm...this is interesting, but I really like #5.

5. Secure remote preload adjuster to an acceptable location that won't have people wondering if it is a remote oil filter of some type.
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2013, 09:11:27 pm »
I agree with you on the design. The adjuster piston housing is not very large, but they added that 'can' to accommodate a ball detent and a hand sized adjustment device.

My install was no picnic either. When I receive my 'new old stock' shock, the hose had a pinhole in it. Guess what they don't sell? The hose and shock are a unit as far as Kawasaki is concerned. It was a brand new takeoff shock so I decided to keep it and figure it out. Seemed simple enough seeing that I work on diving gas systems and know a metric from a standard crescent wrench. Anyway, the hose fitting is not standard like 10.0x1.5 or 1.0 threading, so using a brake hose banjo fitting was out. The housing body is threaded 8mm x 1.0 and spare parts do not exist so re-threading the body to accommodate a typical banjo fitting and brake hose was a big risk venture to say the least due to the fact that the land area around the fitting is insufficient to support a banjo seating surface. Long story short, I ended up machining two AN fittings down from 1/4 inch npt to 8.0x1.0. Luckily I found a scrap hose that would make the bend radius for the install location with the remote adjacent the the seat rail. The improved ride is worth the work considering the shock only cost 80 bucks.

I am curious and interested in the solution to your 'shocking' issue when you get to it.

Good luck,
Randy
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline Dave Scott

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 11:41:01 pm »
I'm interested in your findings too.  I have an unused zzr shock sitting in my garage waiting for me to get the time to do the install.  One item of note, which may vary my results from yours...you might consider going to a meanstreak rear wheel and running a 170/60-17.  It's a bit shorter than the stock 16's height.  It does raise rpms a bit, but it's not bothersome to me.

Offline worncog

  • Crotch Rocket
  • ****
  • Posts: 1658
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 9584
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2013, 01:03:45 am »
I'm interested in your findings too.  I have an unused zzr shock sitting in my garage waiting for me to get the time to do the install.  One item of note, which may vary my results from yours...you might consider going to a meanstreak rear wheel and running a 170/60-17.  It's a bit shorter than the stock 16's height.  It does raise rpms a bit, but it's not bothersome to me.

This is actually a quick mod. Aside from the modifications to the hose I had to perform, this mod took less than two hours. The most time is reducing the upper eye to fit the existing frame bracket. And yes, 17's are the cat's meow.
RWTW, COBDR, SM 500, BVF...

'14 S10, '06 C10, '07 DR650, '14 250XC-F

Offline Dave Scott

  • I Need a Life
  • ******
  • Posts: 6840
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 8603
  • Membership Level: Asst. Area Director
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2013, 09:13:18 pm »
the thing that is delaying me is drilling the bolt head, tapping it, and installing the grease fitting.  But mostly just other projects and little time.   ::)

Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2013, 11:59:43 pm »
Its not required to drill out the bolt head and tap for a zerk. Yes some have done that and it is nicer. But I just has many have not.  I have not. I grease mine by removing the nut, bolt, washers, bushing, etc. so the needle bearings are exposed. When with clean finger I gob some on and press into the bearings packing them the ole fashion way I learned many moons ago. Not as cool as a zerk. I have been hitting it every 12K or once a year. Not quite per the manual, but works and not completely ignored.

Side note I believe its more that just drilling and tapping the bolt head. I am thinking this alone, would put grease between the bolt and the inside the bushing. Not sure this is where we want the greese. Dont we want the grease on the needle bearings and the outer part of the bushing? In this case we need to modify the bushing also. And in such a way as the hole from the drilled/tapped bolt will align with the bushing mod to allow grease all the way into the needle bearings. This not correct?

Seems like it. If you go back to my picture of the two bolts, you will see the stock connne bolt also acts as the bushing and the grease gets all the way to the needle bearings. AND on the ZZR dont they have the zerk on the center link so the grease is applied to the needle bearings from the outside, versus up from the inside like the Connie arrangement, which is why the ZZR bushing and bolt are way they are.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 12:03:50 am by Slybones »
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

  • Industry Member
  • I Need a Life
  • *
  • Posts: 7861
  • AREA: Southeast Area
  • COG#: 6977
  • Membership Level: Active
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 12:52:55 am »
Airmonger - having had a zzr shock, and now the c-14, the zzr IS taller than the stocker by about 1/2" . I wonder if the "nose down" attitude your bike has may be because someone slid the fork tubes up in the triple clamps to effect some lowering? The top of the fork tubes should be even with the top of the handlebar clip on clamps - HTH, steve
C-14 ECU flashing for performance and rideability enhancement
C-10 Carb work , cams, & performance enhancements
 " Modifications for sport-tourers, BY a sport-tourer"
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home

Offline Slybones

  • Sport Tourer
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • AREA: Northwest Area
  • COG#: 6953
  • Membership Level: Expired - Expired Term
Re: Who' links, what links? ZZR Shock
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2013, 01:19:04 am »


Here is my stock shock and the ZZR1200 shock next to it. The tops are even. Any additional length will be noticed at the bottom. Stock shock had 0 psi in it for no preload, And the ZZR preload adjuster was at 0 clicks. At least in my case this was about a 1/4 inch max. Sorry Steve, but in this one here was no 1/2 inch.
2003 Concours, 121K
2005 GL1800ABS, 52K
COG #6953, IBA 28004