09 C-14 Need help electrical issue!

[buds7843308]

I'm having a difficult problem with my 09 C14. There is a lot going on. When I turn the key it does the self check running the lights and sweeping the needles as it's always done, but now after that's done, the turn signal lights all stay on dim and the high beam light comes on on the instrument cluster. When I start the bike it runs but the headlights do not come on high or low beam and the high beam light on the dash may or may not come on. The turn signals stay on dim but will flash with the switch on side but the other side stays on diim at the same time. There are no messages on the dash and the red warning light is not on. When I switch the bike off the self test runs (lights and needles sweep) but it runs repeatedly, 9 times to be exact. I imagine that's how many times it can run within the 5 second time delay before power is shut down. I can't find anything on why it would repeat like that or what it may be trying to tell me. Local dealers are talking 3-4 weeks to get it in to look at it. When I try to explain what's going on they say they've never heard of anything like that happening before, which doesn't fill me with confidence leaving the bike with them to diagnose it. Not to mention the "diagnostic fee $$$$" I've tried testing the relays, swithces and diodes as described in the service manual, individually everything tests OK, put it back together and no joy. The first time the repeated answer back happened was after I got a punctured rear tire on a ride and the tire pressure got down to 18 psi by the time I got to a station with air, by that time the red warning lite on the dash was on too. It did it then when I shut it off. I plugged the tire, aired it up and rode it twice after that without issue everything normal. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Bud

 

[Bud]

Abrasively clean the ground at the frame and all connections at the battery. Corrosion will cause a C14 to do crazy things.

 

[buds7843308]

Abrasively clean the ground at the frame and all connections at the battery. Corrosion will cause a C14 to do crazy things.

Did that I was thinking the battery was possibly at fault removed it and had it load tested, all good. It may be a good idea to remove the positive leads and clean up each connector. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[C 14]

Did that I was thinking the battery was possibly at fault removed it and had it load tested, all good. It may be a good idea to remove the positive leads and clean up each connector. Thanks for the suggestion.

Did you clean the ground that attaches to the frame? And yes, that's an odd issue.

 

[buds7843308]

Did you clean the ground that attaches to the frame? And yes, that's an odd issue.

Yes. I suspect the Kipass computer might be at fault. I was hoping someone may have experienced something similar. I may swap batteries just because mine has some age but hate to throw parts at it since it tested OK.

 

[Tim R]

At the start of this season, I took the C14 outside. Went to start and the starter ran sluggish. It had been on the trickle charger only a couple of days before. I went for a ride and came home. Checking the voltage on the screen read 14 something volts.

The next day I pulled the battery access door and abrasively cleaned the ground that goes from the battery to the frame. Put all back together and put it back on the trickle charger. I noticed it took twice or more the normal time it takes the trickle charger goes into the float mode.

The next time I pushed the starter button, She cranked like normal. The screen read 14 something volts again. It was obvious to me the frame ground needed a cleaning which might have been the second time since I bought the bike in Dec 08.

Like others have sad this ground should be checked and cleaned as a first step in trouble shooting electrical problems. Then check the battery terminals and clean them. Charge the battery and go from there if still having issues.

 

[cmoore]

You mentioned the battery has some age to it. As others have stated this bike will act wonky if the battery isn't good and strong. I know you don't want to throw parts at it but if it was mine I would consider trying a new battery before I gave it to any dealer. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[buds7843308]

At the start of this season, I took the C14 outside. Went to start and the starter ran sluggish. It had been on the trickle charger only a couple of days before. I went for a ride and came home. Checking the voltage on the screen read 14 something volts.

The next day I pulled the battery access door and abrasively cleaned the ground that goes from the battery to the frame. Put all back together and put it back on the trickle charger. I noticed it took twice or more the normal time it takes the trickle charger goes into the float mode.

The next time I pushed the starter button, She cranked like normal. The screen read 14 something volts again. It was obvious to me the frame ground needed a cleaning which might have been the second time since I bought the bike in Dec 08.

Like others have sad this ground should be checked and cleaned as a first step in trouble shooting electrical problems. Then check the battery terminals and clean them. Charge the battery and go from there if still having issues.

Removed and burnished all connections to battery and frame. Took the NAPA battery back to NAPA to test, wound up replacing it. No joy! I noticed the low beam headlight relay is chattering with the key on engine running or not, swapped it with the High beam relay since its the same PN. Did not follow the relay the high beam relay is chatering also in the low beam position. As I said the relays themselves test OK. Still doing the repeated answer back when you shut the key of. Thinking maybe the ignition switch? Can't see where Kipass computer would be affecting the headlights coming on when the engine starts or how a headlight issue is tied to the answer back running repeatedly? Service manual not helping much schematics are pretty weak.

 

[Tim R]

The only thing that should come on after turning the key to on is the city lights. The head lights don't come till the bike is running. So my question would be what component turns the head lights on after the bike starts?

 

[buds7843308]

The only thing that should come on after turning the key to on is the city lights. The head lights don't come till the bike is running. So my question would be what component turns the head lights on after the bike starts?

Thanks Tim but I know that I've owned this bike since 2014. Pretty good mechanic, Electronics not my forte. I would assume that engine run signal would be coming from the ECU, although schematic looks like it's coming form the alternator, this is where the schematics in the Service manual aren't really helping. Logic would dictate if you jump the contacts essentially closing the headlight relay which has power on the White Blue wire basically direct from battery, with the engine running the headlights would come on. Not with this issue all lights (turn signals and city lights all go off) no headlight either. This is what's got me thinking ignition switch or the wire harness has had an internal melt down! Which is kinda where I'm at!

 

[Bud]

Mice? A pin that has backed out of a connector? Corrosion on a connector?

 

[Just Cliff]

Sounds like you have a grounding block that is corroded, this will make it all kinds of wierd things happen. Had the same thing on my 08 & I know of one 09 it's happened to. A rare issue but easy to fix ONCE traced down.

My issue was, high beam/blinker indicator lights stayed on. No headlights & blinkers burned dim but steady. Needless to say I was out state, but rode it home.

There 11 ground blocks in the harness. The one that I found & I believe the mentioned 09 had one in the same location. They are right near the air filter access. Look/feel the harness & you can tell where the blocks are, roughly 1/2 - 3/4" square though some are rectangle.

Once the offending one is found simply cut it out stripe wires & put a wire nut on. Put some silicone in the end of the wire nut tape up well.

No parts required, good luck.

 

[buds7843308]

Sounds like you have a grounding block that is corroded, this will make it all kinds of wierd things happen. Had the same thing on my 08 & I know of one 09 it's happened to. A rare issue but easy to fix ONCE traced down.

My issue was, high beam/blinker indicator lights stayed on. No headlights & blinkers burned dim but steady. Needless to say I was out state, but rode it home.

There 11 ground blocks in the harness. The one that I found & I believe the mentioned 09 had one in the same location. They are right near the air filter access. Look/feel the harness & you can tell where the blocks are, roughly 1/2 - 3/4" square though some are rectangle.

Once the offending one is found simply cut it out stripe wires & put a wire nut on. Put some silicone in the end of the wire nut tape up well.

No parts required, good luck.

Thenks Cliff I was down aimlessly to ringing out wires. I appreciate your feedback, I'll definitely check this out. I haven't had much time recently to keep on it but hope I can look at it this weekend. Sound exactly like whats happening with mine. Nice to have a path, Once I get in there I'll let you know what I find.

 

[buds7843308]

Sounds like you have a grounding block that is corroded, this will make it all kinds of wierd things happen. Had the same thing on my 08 & I know of one 09 it's happened to. A rare issue but easy to fix ONCE traced down.

My issue was, high beam/blinker indicator lights stayed on. No headlights & blinkers burned dim but steady. Needless to say I was out state, but rode it home.

There 11 ground blocks in the harness. The one that I found & I believe the mentioned 09 had one in the same location. They are right near the air filter access. Look/feel the harness & you can tell where the blocks are, roughly 1/2 - 3/4" square though some are rectangle.

Once the offending one is found simply cut it out stripe wires & put a wire nut on. Put some silicone in the end of the wire nut tape up well.

No parts required, good luck.

FIXED IT! Credit here goes to Just Cliff, without his input I'd still be poking around in the dark. If you look at the pictures in his original post you'll see the six wire grounding connector (the service manual calls them Joint connectors) had corrosion in the connector. I had to unwrap them and clean off all the tape to get to them. I open up the six wire and the two 3 wire connectors, they have caps or covers on them under the cover there's a jumper plug that connects the wire group. I wanted to add photos but I'm only a lowly forum subscriber so I was unable. I pulled out the jumper plugs and was able to clean mine up with baking soda, contact cleaner, sand paper and some dental picks. The wires themselves weren't corroded. I suspect they used some type of glue to glue the jumper plug inside the cap that may have started the corrosion. After cleaning I put the jumper plugs back in the connectors and all symptoms cleared. All lights operated normally, starts and runs with headlights on, all lights working. Turning the key off I only get the single answer back as it should be. Can't thank you enough Cliff! I've still got some work to do to get it all back together and out on the road but I'm thrilled to have it working again this was a strange one and hard to diagnose. Looking forward to getting her back out there again.

 

[Just Cliff]

Glad it worked out for ya & yes I was pretty confident that was the issue!

 

[buds7843308]

Glad it worked out for ya & yes I was pretty confident that was the issue!

Thanks for sharing your experience! Bike saver

 

[Bud]

Glad you got it fixed! Cliff just saved you more than what it costs to join cog as a full member. You could show your appreciation by joining cog. Membership equals more benefits!

 

[Tim R]

Glad you got it fixed! Cliff just saved you more than what it costs to join cog as a full member. You could show your appreciation by joining cog. Membership equals more benefits!

Yup, the dues are less than an it cost for an hour's labor for most mechanics.

 

[Bud]

Wonder how many hours of head scratching he would have gotten billed for at a dealer? Could have been scary.

 

[Just Cliff]

Wonder how many hours of head scratching he would have gotten billed for at a dealer? Could have been scary.

I would venture to say I spent at least 30+ hours tracking it down, but then again I aren't that smart. Yes, I hate to even think about the head scratching of some 20 something Kawi tech working on this.

This is the 3rd time that I know of that this has occurred, not to say there aren't others. My 08 & 2 09's, all the same location apparently.

 

[buds7843308]

Glad you got it fixed! Cliff just saved you more than what it costs to join cog as a full member. You could show your appreciation by joining cog. Membership equals more benefits!

Excellent point Bud! Now a full member, Thanks to all who replied and tried to help.

 

[IBAJIM]

Sounds like you have a grounding block that is corroded, this will make it all kinds of wierd things happen. Had the same thing on my 08 & I know of one 09 it's happened to. A rare issue but easy to fix ONCE traced down.
SNIP .......

This is very good to know !! I'm filing this away and I hope I recall it if my '08 ever develops this problem.

 

[buds7843308]

This is very good to know !! I'm filing this away and I hope I recall it if my '08 ever develops this problem.

I've been meaning to update this since becoming a member so I could add the pictures of the plugs and jumper connectors below. My aviation background coupled with some OCD didn't want me to cut the wire harness and wire nut it. I pulled the jumper plugs out of the connectors. You can see the 4 pin plugs were clean and tight the six pin plug was the issue. Tried cleaning the connector but wound up having to unpin the wires (used a dental pick) released the clips and leverage the wires out of the connector. The connectors were loose on the pins so I crimped them again and made sure they fit tight and put them back in the connector. Maybe overkill but tinned the pins with solder and was able to solder the connections once back in the plug. Additional info. During troubleshooting, once I knew what I was looking for, I could feel the connector heating up when it was acting up. Also there is another one of these 6 pin connectors just forward of the KIPAS computer under the seat for future reference. So far so good since this repair.

 

[RIDESAN08]

I opened and checked all 6 of those grounding blocks. They look fine. No corrosion. Took the occasion to replace the air filter. It is likely the original, not changed since 2013 anyway. I will keep searching for the ground problem. Next: the battery cable.
The advice offered here has been so helpful.

 

[Konehead34]

Join for the bike, and stay for the people.....

Just curious if theres been any data gather regarding what years have seen issues luke this pop up. Such as is it just a particular year, or bikes in certain parts of the country ( moist vs dry) or near salt water, that are experiencing this problem...

 

[Fred H.]

Deoxit D5 is an excellent contact cleaner spray to clean these type of connectors and get oxidation off the pins. Amazon sells it.

PLEASE resist the temptation to pack connectors with dielectric (silicone) grease. This will only serve to make a mess of everything and trap dirt and cause future problems. I've personally seen lots of electrical problems on bikes where owners have put dielectric grease in the connectors. Contacts on connectors are designed to be assembled CLEAN and DRY.

What typically happens is a ground or power lead that goes through a connector develops a small amount of resistance at the connector, and this resistance causes heat, which over time causes the resistance problem to get worse and make even more heat, which can then accelerate corrosion. If it gets hot enough it can damage the plastic connector body. Sometimes you can save the connector, but many times the best solution is to simply cut the bad wires out of the connector and solder and heat shrink them together. The only issue this can cause is that it can complicate future maintenance if you need to remove that connector to do maintenance on the bike, so you need to take that into account.

 

[fisher]

This thread is a fantastic example of the excellent members in this group!

 

[Bagger John]

Deoxit D5 is an excellent contact cleaner spray to clean these type of connectors and get oxidation off the pins. Amazon sells it.

There are several different formulations of Deoxt.

The spray cleaner works nicely for getting into non-sealed switches and doing an initial pass on connector contacts. D5-100L comes in a dropper bottle (with syringe tip) and is great for preventive maintenance. Put a little on each pin, mate and un-mate the connectors several times, blow any loose formulation out of the connector shells then mate a final time. Enough residual product is left to form a barrier against oxidation.

FWIW, I'm heavily involved in R&D/R&R activities in the comms-gear end of the electronics spectrum. We use a LOT of this stuff, and in EU a lot of Servisol.

 

[buds7843308]

RIDESAN08​

Member​

Member

I opened and checked all 6 of those grounding blocks. They look fine. No corrosion. Took the occasion to replace the air filter. It is likely the original, not changed since 2013 anyway. I will keep searching for the ground problem. Next: the battery cable.
The advice offered here has been so helpful.

I you're having similar symptoms I suggest going back to the six pin grounding block and taking it apart examine the plastic cap for ANY distortion. As Fred said resistance will create heat, this was evident when I looked at mine. The problem may not be corrosion the resistance can also be caused by the female receptacle getting loose on the pin of male plug. After taking mine apart and touroughly cleaning everything testing it and having everything working again, thinking I was done. I taped it all up and retested it just before cowling it back up and the issue returned. At that time I could feel the connector was heating up. That's when I decided to over kill it and solder everything back together. I was able to do that without destroying the original connector. You could actually push the female plugs out of the plastic and solder them directly to the male prongs or Dremel away some of the plastic to give you better access to solder the connections in the existing connector. The wire nut method is an option as well. Mine has not had any recurrence of the problem since I soldered the connections.

Good luck
Bud

 

[nickrides]

I feel your pain.
Not related but I just solved a 5 yr long parasitic battery draw down on my GMC van.
Be patient and keep going you can fix it!
Keep going.
Nick
2014 C-14

 

[Fred H.]

The wire nut method is an option as well. Mine has not had any recurrence of the problem since I soldered the connections.

I'm not a fan of using wire nuts on vehicles, they were designed for house wiring. Vehicles get too much vibration and environmental exposure, so connections really should be soldered and covered with heat shrink.

 

[buds7843308]

I agree 100%, Just Cliff said it worked for him and it's pretty simple. I couldn't bring myself to use that option. I tried to keep it as close to original design as possible an eliminate the faulty connections.