100 Points of Traction & R=MPH

[x01660]

Maybe y'all have seen these, but these two videos are FANTASTIC in explaining grip and turning.

Do you all follow these techniques? I realized that I have been subconciously. I'm ALWAYS trail braking. I actually can't think of a time when I'm NOT trail braking. Maybe when there's debris in a corner...

In any case, I'd love to hear what y'all have to say about them!

-Z

 

[redline]

I haven't until maybe a year ago. I always entered the corners at a speed i thought was correct and committed to it, maintaining throttle and it probably worked just fine but I have done a lot of reading since and am practicing trail braking now. I think once you understand how that effects your bikes stability and weight transfer, traction etc. it just makes sense. we don't always know what we might encounter on the road and having these skills are invaluable and might save your butt. I usually ride alone but got to meet some other guys in our area and had one of them follow me and pointed out that i also ride a more traditional 'racing line' (early apex) and how riding the late apex is a better solution in most turns. braking old habits takes being intentionally and mentally prepare yourself before each ride, at least until it becomes a habit or second nature. I started to hit my front crash bars on certain downhill turns and that started me to figure out what changed because i ride that mountain road a lot and now started to lean that hard ( not intentionally) Anyway, the road is snowed over and can't wait for spring to come around and we will use cameras to record each other and try to improve our riding skills. I think there are a lot of people that have argued that we are not on a race track, just wish they would realize that these skills apply anywhere to keep you safe and make you a better rider. One other thought, i watched a ton of youtube videos, bike crashed, bikers riding wrecklessly etc. trying to figure out what they have done wrong and causing the crash is also good practice to help us to avoid those errors. I skook my head so many times and wondered how they crashed in that turn. I could have done that blind folded but then the guy showing those videos reminded us that people ride above their skill level and buy bikes that are not a match for their skill level. Ted

 

[x01660]

I haven't until maybe a year ago. I always entered the corners at a speed i thought was correct and committed to it, maintaining throttle and it probably worked just fine but I have done a lot of reading since and am practicing trail braking now. I think once you understand how that effects your bikes stability and weight transfer, traction etc. it just makes sense. we don't always know what we might encounter on the road and having these skills are invaluable and might save your butt. I usually ride alone but got to meet some other guys in our area and had one of them follow me and pointed out that i also ride a more traditional 'racing line' (early apex) and how riding the late apex is a better solution in most turns. braking old habits takes being intentionally and mentally prepare yourself before each ride, at least until it becomes a habit or second nature. I started to hit my front crash bars on certain downhill turns and that started me to figure out what changed because i ride that mountain road a lot and now started to lean that hard ( not intentionally) Anyway, the road is snowed over and can't wait for spring to come around and we will use cameras to record each other and try to improve our riding skills. I think there are a lot of people that have argued that we are not on a race track, just wish they would realize that these skills apply anywhere to keep you safe and make you a better rider. One other thought, i watched a ton of youtube videos, bike crashed, bikers riding wrecklessly etc. trying to figure out what they have done wrong and causing the crash is also good practice to help us to avoid those errors. I skook my head so many times and wondered how they crashed in that turn. I could have done that blind folded but then the guy showing those videos reminded us that people ride above their skill level and buy bikes that are not a match for their skill level. Ted

ALL of this. The only person I ride with on a regular basis (not anymore) is my best friend who was a pro racer (sponsored) back in the 80s and 90s. And most of our rides are him following me (usually with a camera) on a route, making pointers, then us turning around and me (attempting, and poorly, lol) following him.

In addition, the most powerful bike I've ridden only made around 115 HP. Even on Off-Kilter, there was ALWAYS room to push a bit more, learn a bit more.... So when I see these kids on S1000RRs, R1s, and Panigales, I wonder HOW much of that is "skill", and how much of it the IMUs and rider assists (I've never ridden a bike with ABS, linked brakes, or even an ECU. Other than a cruise on a Road King and my sprint up the mountain on his fuel injected 86 GSXR). I had this realization when I went riding with a dude who was on an R1 and I was on Off-Kilter, and in the canyon, I was able to stay RIGHT on his ass, other than in straights. There are a LOT of people who just get on and twist the throttle and get that adrenaline rush. I VERY rarely see riders in parking lots practicing skills...

And you're right about the road not being a racetrack. What I like to do is set a speed and try to stick to that speed for as long as possible. On my last really long ride (BRP/Skyline Dr), on the BRP section, the speed limit is 45. I set my desired speed to 50, and tried to stay at that speed through ALL the turns, even the tight ones. Makes for a much more involved (and safer) ride.

As for the looking at Youtube videos of biker shenanigans; I'm subbed to MotoMadness, and I SPECIFICALLY look at really gnarly crash videos immediately before heading out on a ride; it reminds me to respect the VERY dangerous activity in which I'm engaged, and to be on the lookout for all the other dumbasses on the road, on 2 or 4 (or lord forbid you're in one of those HIDEOUS Apocalypse 6x6 Jeep monstrosities-6) wheels...

I'm REALLY looking forward to meeting all of you in person and chatting and getting some twisties in.

-Z

 

[Stasch]

The first video is the best I've ever seen at describing the brake vs loading the tire and breaking traction at lean.

Now I just need this Michigan weather to go away so I can play around with it.

 

[Konehead34]

The first video is the best I've ever seen at describing the brake vs loading the tire and breaking traction at lean.

Now I just need this Michigan weather to go away so I can play around with it.

There's a word for that..... RELOCATION!!! LOL

 

[Stasch]

There's a word for that..... RELOCATION!!! LOL

If it were only that simple!

 

[Daboo]

I came back to riding back in 2006 and the next year upgraded from my Kymco 250cc scooter to a 2007 Suzuki Burgman 400...with a whopping 34 hp. I learned a lot on that low hp bike. I could keep up with much more powerful bikes with it because it taught me how to ride smoothly.

I think we learn bad habits with our bikes. We have more than enough hp to power out of a corner and feel like a pro...when we are really riding ham-fisted. The same with out brakes. We can mash on them, lose a lot of speed and it doesn't seem to make any difference.

But if you're trying to ride a 34 hp scooter with bikes with more than double your horsepower, the only way to keep up is to carry your speed as far as possible into the turn, and not lose speed in the turn.