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1441 Transplant

zrxmax

Pistons, Cams, and Valves!
Member
Lets say a guy wanted to swap out the block, pistons, head and cams from a ZX-14 1441 onto a 2010 model. What would you estimate the cost would be including the tuneup to make it run as it should? Are the connecting rods the same? Would you need a radiator upgrade of any sort? What other tweaks would be needed to make the swap?
 
Ok... However... I already have a 05 Hayabusa for the last 7 years (my 2nd) and it will remain with me for now... I was simply under the impression some 1441 mods can be done on our Connies to add more torque.

In general the Connie is so much more comfortable at my age of 67 and even though it has plenty of power I like the idea of a power increase... sorry... its just my addictive muscle car era personality still shining through! :)
 
Ok... However... I already have a 05 Hayabusa for the last 7 years (my 2nd) and it will remain with me for now... I was simply under the impression some 1441 mods can be done on our Connies to add more torque.

In general the Connie is so much more comfortable at my age of 67 and even though it has plenty of power I like the idea of a power increase... sorry... its just my addictive muscle car era personality still shining through! :)
Get a Shoodaben flash .
 
If only it had a power windshield like ours:unsure:

After headers and steve's flash, I'm happy, not sure the power curve would work as well on big bertha.
 
Get a H2 SX SE+ and be done with it......
This is the PAYOFF!


That H2 SX is a beautifully engineered motorcycle! (y) Even though I am only 5'9" I like the big bike ride and comfort. The longer wheelbase adds a little more stability with only a small price to pay as to how sharp it can corner. I also like the fact that shaft drive will always trump the chain drive maintenance factor. Of all the motorcycles I have ever rode or owned (15) I have to give it to the Concours1400 over anything else so far. Yes... the Moto journalist rate other sport tourers higher, however... the 1400 motor still beats out 99% for the load it carries day to day in my humble opinion.

I really like the way my 1400 runs though more power is always welcome. All I have is a slip on for added performance. The clutch is the best in the business as compared to anything I have ever ridden. I have killed the motor only 1 time since picking it up in April and that includes all the times I forgot to shift down one more gear and took off in second.

Been pondering the Shoodaben flash... If the trailer sells then I might just splurge a little on some more invisible stuff that promises a good increase in power. :)
 
Been pondering the Shoodaben flash... If the trailer sells then I might just splurge a little on some more invisible stuff that promises a good increase in power. :) Yes, that would be the best thing to do by far - and so quick & easy you won't be pining for a 1441 any longer.
 
As I posted here on the forum a few years ago, if I had known about Steve's flash I wouldn't have bought my ZX-14R. Seriously!
 
In reality how much more power and torque is 89CC going to provide at what expense? $$$
I have a 16 with a BW header, an Akra Slip-on and Steve's Mountain runner premium. It has more than enough power throughout the whole RPM range that I've been in. I have yet to take it over 10k as there is no need to imo. Besides the added weight it feels almost as my 12 R1 that was flashed and had a Graves exhaust system.
 
In reality how much more power and torque is 89CC going to provide at what expense? $$$
I have a 16 with a BW header, an Akra Slip-on and Steve's Mountain runner premium. It has more than enough power throughout the whole RPM range that I've been in. I have yet to take it over 10k as there is no need to imo. Besides the added weight it feels almost as my 12 R1 that was flashed and had a Graves exhaust system.

Well, the engine in question puts out 208 HP, so quite a lot actually. But it cannot be done. Okay, I guess if one had unlimited resources, the engine could be made to fit. Anything is possible, but unless you really had unlimited resources, no, it would not be worth it.
 
Been pondering the Shoodaben flash... If the trailer sells then I might just splurge a little on some more invisible stuff that promises a good increase in power. :) Yes, that would be the best thing to do by far - and so quick & easy you won't be pining for a 1441 any longer.
Thanks for that response. I am new here and don't know much about the lack of or abundance of parts interchangeability between these motors.
 
The 2 most significant factors preventing it are the shaft drive/chain drive and electronics.
 
The 2 most significant factors preventing it are the shaft drive/chain drive and electronics.
AND the Variable Valve Timing. Also not sure if the 1441 motor uses the same head-frame mounting points as the 1352 ZX14 motor the C14 is based on. LOTS of work for an extra top end 40Bhp over a flashed C14. Also the low-end torque will suffer as the ZX motor is tuned for top end power, not tractability like the C14.
If you want that speed, buy a ZX1441 :D
Otherwise a flashed C14 is more than adequate for showing a clean pair of heels to most bikes out there.
 
AND the Variable Valve Timing. Also not sure if the 1441 motor uses the same head-frame mounting points as the 1352 ZX14 motor the C14 is based on. LOTS of work for an extra top end 40Bhp over a flashed C14. Also the low-end torque will suffer as the ZX motor is tuned for top end power, not tractability like the C14.
If you want that speed, buy a ZX1441 :D
Otherwise a flashed C14 is more than adequate for showing a clean pair of heels to most bikes out there.
You sure about that torque loss....? Brock has a tune that pound out 125# on 89 octane, and the max torque hits around 7500rpm. And it's more like a 50+ HP difference. My ZX14 was as smooth and tractable as my C14, it would lug around in top gear all over town.
 
AND the Variable Valve Timing. Also not sure if the 1441 motor uses the same head-frame mounting points as the 1352 ZX14 motor the C14 is based on. LOTS of work for an extra top end 40Bhp over a flashed C14. Also the low-end torque will suffer as the ZX motor is tuned for top end power, not tractability like the C14.
If you want that speed, buy a ZX1441 :D
Otherwise a flashed C14 is more than adequate for showing a clean pair of heels to most bikes out there.
Yes it does.
There is some machine work that needs to be done to make the shaft drive mount up and work correctly
 
Im actually looking at putting the zx14r motor in to the c14. You would have to change out the main wiring harness and ecu and everything electrical. Not a big deal. Car kits come complete with everything for 4k. You lose vvt. There is machine work to adapt the front bevel drive. And some oil passages to be ported. And the transmission to be swapped out to mate with the bevel drive. It might sound difficult but its not really. My concern is the bevel drive failure thats become quite common. I did some research after mine failed and I'm not alone. Although a new bearing every 30k-40k would be safe and easy. But I might go the other way and put the c14 body, bags and all onto the zx14r. Winter is coming.
 
Im actually looking at putting the zx14r motor in to the c14. You would have to change out the main wiring harness and ecu and everything electrical. Not a big deal. Car kits come complete with everything for 4k. You lose vvt. There is machine work to adapt the front bevel drive. And some oil passages to be ported. And the transmission to be swapped out to mate with the bevel drive. It might sound difficult but its not really. My concern is the bevel drive failure that's become quite common. I did some research after mine failed and I'm not alone. Although a new bearing every 30k-40k would be safe and easy. But I might go the other way and put the c14 body, bags and all onto the zx14r. Winter is coming.

Are you referring to a bevel drive failure on a C-14, or on a ZX14R??

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Moving the C-14 parts to a ZX, might be the easiest way to go with your project.
 
My concern would be the bevel drive on the C14. The ZX14 is chain drive. Considering the failures reported on the C14, I wonder how the bevel drive would hold up with 210hp beating on it.

And I agree about moving all the parts to the ZX. One of the main reasons is that its easily reversible back to stock form if wanted.

If you modify the ZX engine there's no going back, because the machining required for the bevel drive removes support for the output shaft bearing.
 
My concern is the bevel drive failure thats become quite common. I did some research after mine failed and I'm not alone. Although a new bearing every 30k-40k would be safe and easy.

It's more of the quailty of the bearings in question in IHO. The bevel drive outter bearing is easy to change. The inner bearing requires speical tools. Both have been known to go bad.

I can attest the C14 has the ability to keep these bearings well oiled.
 
These motors are not built that way. The cylinders are cast with the upper case half, so its all one piece. And the bores are the same anyway. Its a 4mm stroke increase that gets from 1352 to 1441. The 1441 crank will fit the Concours cases (with a little grinding) but the deck heights are 5mm different. There are 5mm shorter rods from Carrillo but they cost $1200. Then there's some clearance issues that I'm not comfortable with, So scrap that.
 
These motors are not built that way. The cylinders are cast with the upper case half, so its all one piece. And the bores are the same anyway. Its a 4mm stroke increase that gets from 1352 to 1441. The 1441 crank will fit the Concours cases (with a little grinding) but the deck heights are 5mm different. There are 5mm shorter rods from Carrillo but they cost $1200. Then there's some clearance issues that I'm not comfortable with, So scrap that.
long stroke, short rods. Good for torque. wind it up watch it go BOOM!
 
Since this motor lives between 4-9k rpm the vast majority of its life, I don't see a rod/stroke ratio of 1.700 as being a problem. Stock zx14r is 1.780. But ultimately the short rod and deck height did cause clearance problems with the crank throw and the wrist pin boss.
 
I did talk to CP/Carrillo about that. But now we're up to $3k just in pistons, rods and crank modifications. Plus who knows how much more in unforeseen obstacles. If I was building a race motor I might consider it, but then I wouldn't be starting with the Concours motor anyhoo. And as I said. you can buy a "car kit" 1441 motor for $4k. But there's still a bit work to do there.

I did buy a complete and pristine Concours motor just to take apart and look at. When I put it back together I'm going to put in a set 1441 pistons with 12.5cr. They're like new and I paid $80 for them.

I also bought a 1441 used crank that I'll be selling. It needs #3 pin cleaned up. That's something I found out upon research of this project, and that is that, Kawasaki has a problem with oiling in this motor and #3 rod bearing and crank pin are the first to go.
 
zrxmax,

As others have said. The Shoodaben flash does two things IMHO.

1. It squeezes every last ounce of performance out of the engine.
2. It does this in a way that improves it for slow speed parking lot riding, middle speed surface street riding, and improves the thrilling aspect of mountain carving.

Again, IMHO, if you are looking to max out the performance capability of this bike you cannot go wrong with the Shoodaben flash. If you are looking to make your bike more specialized for a specific function, you are very likely seeking the expertise of our long term subscriber/experts ("experts" is my term).

"experts" on this site have saved me well over 1000X the cost of membership. You have received advice from people well versed in this bike and are industry leaders.

I do hope you choose to subscribe to our group zrxmax.
 
I am a member and very happy I signed up.... As usual... I have noticed through my life that people who choose to live life while they are alive by riding motorcycles are my kind of people. We take calculated risk... and that means we consider things that are dangerous from a bit higher perspective than the average cat. Otherwise, we would stay stuck driving a cage.

I am actually very impressed with the 1400. I still have one Busa and had one before that along with the other 14+ motorcycles of the past I have had the pleasure of owning since 1971. The 1990 ZX-11 was the big change in my appreciation level of what a solid handling motorcycle can do... but... I digress.... dinner is on for the political debate at my friends house... got to go !
 
zrxmax,

My apologies on my previous membership comment. I must have had a senior moment. Keep us posted on your project!
 
ZRXMAX I have the Mountain Flash and it's better than the original flash. However I also have a Busa and there is a big
difference between it and the C14. It's lighter and smaller then the C14 therefore is faster then the C14 will ever be IMO
EVEN if you could put the ZX14 engine in it I doubt that it would ever be as fast as your Busa. How much faster with a ZX14
engine is up for debate until someone does it and has numbers to prove how much faster it is with the bigger motor. Then the
question would be was it worth the work, time and money it took to do the job, to go a little faster.
 
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