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C10 Carb overflow tube installation

v65bill

Guest
Guest
Trying to find information about installing carburetor overflow tubes on the C-10. Specifically, the length of the tubes for proper overflow height. Being a machinist I have no problem with shrinking them in, but as in all things mechanical, there are some specifications that you need to know and not guess at! Any information as to a link or article on how to do the job would be greatly appreciated!
                              V-65 Bill   
 
Thanks for the response! I was wondering where you got the 4mm above the bowl flange, spec? I tried to look up the articles you mentioned in '06, but the forum only goes back to '08.
    You might consider shrinking the tube into to a reamed hole that's about half a thousandth (.0005") or so smaller than the tube O.D. You'd have to chill the tube in the freezer or dry ice, and heat the bowl up enough to enlarge the hole so that the chilled tube contracts enough to be smaller than the O.D. of the hole. When the hole contracts in size when it cools off, and the tube expands in diameter when it heats up, it's a shrink fit that you couldn't pull out with pliers! That way there is no problem with the gas eating away at any glue or epoxy. That's how they do it at the factories. You can look up the process on the internet and get the specifics as far as temps and hole sizes, of course the materials used might change what temps would be dictated. Check it out!
    Thanks again for your response's!
 
I went 0.10 mm smaller, chamfered the hole and hand radiused (deburred) the end of the tube. used a tiny amount of sleeving loctite which is anaerobic and works under pressure, and used my pratt and whitney bench mill to drill, then press the tubes in.

I also saw the above info, measured and verified it wouldn't be too high to seep into the intake tract if the level gets too high due to a failing needle and seat and/or petcock, but not too low to starve the pilot. the whole process took me about 30 minutes to do all the bowls, $10 in brass tube which i now have a bunch of spare of now.

theres so little material on the brass tube, i didnt bother cooling it. 

 
Not for me , or anybody capable of it. Both the OP and myself have access to machine tools & the experience to do this. some of us on here actually build things for a living, not just cut checks. No offense, but TBH, it was done in the time it took me to drink a cup of coffee. And, was fun to do. .02
 
m in sc said:
Not for me , or anybody capable of it. Both the OP and myself have access to machine tools & the experience to do this. some of us on here actually build things for a living, not just cut checks. No offense, but TBH, it was done in the time it took me to drink a cup of coffee. And, was fun to do. .02
No offense taken. I have been engineering and modifying motorcycles since 1969.
 
DC Concours said:
I sent them to steve. I have soft girly hands and metal hurts them.

  ME TOO!! Found out a long time ago that even though I have the tools I don't have the knowledge. Better to let the person with the knowledge that will get it right!!! :)
 
Some great information and comedy too  ;D If V65 Bill figures out how to do the overflows correctly without issues it will be great for me,  ( I know him and am not afraid to ask a favor) I'm sure I have the tools and the capability, it's not rocket science,  but man am I lazy!  :great: :beerchug:
 
CBX-Bob said:
Some great information and comedy too  ;D If V65 Bill figures out how to do the overflows correctly without issues it will be great for me,  ( I know him and am not afraid to ask a favor) I'm sure I have the tools and the capability, it's not rocket science,  but man am I lazy!  :great: :beerchug:
At least you're honest! :great: ;D
 
I'm honing in on it Bob, but it's really gunna cost you when I get it nailed down! So don't get all weepy on my when I hold your fuel bowls for RANSOM!
    Actually, I'm getting tired of all this research, and just want to ride the Old girl! But it looks like I'll be forced to use my 36 year old  V-65 Magna until I can get Connie back together!
    I want to thank all of you for the information you've given me, it's kind of a, "Getting the information is like the ride, and doing the job is the destination", kind of thing, it's all good, but the real ride is better! 
 
Staticwolf said:
I hear send the carbs to Steve allot. Who is that and what are the prices?



Steve in Sunny Fla said:
4 mm is not enough. It needs to be at least 8mm.

  Steve
Him.
He just moved and announced a new flash for the C14, so he's trying to get settled in.  He's also THE carb guy that you've heard about.  Steve knows how to set up carbs for the C10.  Don't think he's taking carbs at the moment because of the move and the volume of work he's going to get with the new flash.  If you're not comfortable with carb work or just think maybe someone that has done hundreds of C10 carbs might be better, then be patient and he'll be taking carbs again.  Most guys that have such a loyal following as Steve, must be doing something right.  Here's a link to his youtube vids and the shoodaben site.
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC01PL9eHAFi8dAV1d9FHLTw
 
or you could send them to me,
and I'll do the mod... I need the money to do my flash for my C14...... I figure 4 jobs will cover it....
not.
:))
just kidding, I'm not willing to do it, nor would I for any $ figure...
just aying you get what you pay for, and thi stuff wasn't all to be a freebie, when we did it wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy back in time.



go man go, (Bubba)...
 
mine work well @4mm, no issues, no drips etc. then again, i don't answer to anybody that paid me for the job. so if it fails (which is hasn't yet), i can redo it if i need to, which i doubt. easy as pie.  But, if steve goes 8, that's safer i'm sure, follow his advice.  :beerchug:
 
m in sc said:
mine work well @4mm, no issues, no drips etc. then again, i don't answer to anybody that paid me for the job. so if it fails (which is hasn't yet), i can redo it if i need to, which i doubt. easy as pie.  But, if steve goes 8, that's safer i'm sure, follow his advice.  :beerchug:

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
If you din't have a float needle issue, I suppose you were safe, and the work was just a time consuming thing. no matter, all good, at least you would have the flow venting 4mm before it got to "critical" level..(which is slightly above that point..)  and not gotten hydro'd.

but, back to basics, simply doing the inverted carb @45* inspection, with a float at 17mm.. really never was all that difficult.. mmmm?
FSM 101.
 
Bud said:
Staticwolf said:
I hear send the carbs to Steve allot. Who is that and what are the prices?



Steve in Sunny Fla said:
4 mm is not enough. It needs to be at least 8mm.

  Steve
Him.
He just moved and announced a new flash for the C14, so he's trying to get settled in.  He's also THE carb guy that you've heard about.  Steve knows how to set up carbs for the C10.  Don't think he's taking carbs at the moment because of the move and the volume of work he's going to get with the new flash.  If you're not comfortable with carb work or just think maybe someone that has done hundreds of C10 carbs might be better, then be patient and he'll be taking carbs again.  Most guys that have such a loyal following as Steve, must be doing something right.  Here's a link to his youtube vids and the shoodaben site.
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC01PL9eHAFi8dAV1d9FHLTw
His videos are what I have been watching. I know c10s are different from quadro jet 850 4b carbs so I did go in blind folded a little bit, but I understand the concept. Just wish I could figure out my issue with the darn carb. I may just ask for his help when he gets time. Or unless he has a chance to message me.
 
Bud said:
Staticwolf said:
I hear send the carbs to Steve allot. Who is that and what are the prices?



Steve in Sunny Fla said:
4 mm is not enough. It needs to be at least 8mm.

  Steve
Him.
He just moved and announced a new flash for the C14, so he's trying to get settled in.  He's also THE carb guy that you've heard about.  Steve knows how to set up carbs for the C10.  Don't think he's taking carbs at the moment because of the move and the volume of work he's going to get with the new flash.  If you're not comfortable with carb work or just think maybe someone that has done hundreds of C10 carbs might be better, then be patient and he'll be taking carbs again.  Most guys that have such a loyal following as Steve, must be doing something right.  Here's a link to his youtube vids and the shoodaben site.
https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/home
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC01PL9eHAFi8dAV1d9FHLTw

IIRC, he told me it's over 500 sets, 2000 carbbies. That says a little something. And that was a while ago. Not so many in very recent years as the bikes are getting more ancient and less common.
 
I did mine at 4mm and used a drill press. I also used Caswell's two part gas tank sealer as epoxy. Have had no problems going past one year now.

Honestly though if Steve says 8mm would follow his generous and oft free advice.

Would also offer this slant on tube subject and Steve. The peace of mind that comes with him doing the job is probably more than worth his fee.

Also DIY ruining a set of four float bowls would be an expensive DIY mistake. As an avid DIYer, I have to warranty my own work and suffer any fix. Will now be wondering what the 4mm more to 8 difference makes??!!
 
4 mm is not enough because the fuel sloshes in the bowls and can / does slosh over. Folks don't like to see the carbs peeing on the ground.

  If you study the carbs with a critical eye, and understand the interface between the main well and the main air correction jet (which is often a discharge point for the overflows) You would see that there is just over 10mm height from the parting line to the intersection. The idea with the overflows at 8 mm is to stop the slosh overflow and also to not get to the main well / air correction interface.

  I also don't use any kind of epoxy. Tried all that early on, it's an accident waiting to happen. Precision drilled press fit will never leak. Yes, I ruined some bowls (my own) early on.

  And it's over 700 sets now, but clearly much less volume than years gone by.

  I do still offer this service, I hope by sharing with the DIY guys I haven't educated a future competitor.

  Steve
 
I doubt you'll have any competition. I think you have done most if not all the good bikes out there whose owners were cognisant. The rest are crappy and shouldn't be purchased.
 
no worries here, i get where you are coming from with the 8mm, like said, i've had -zero- issues with mine. No spilling, no sloshing, no drips. I also use a manual petcok and always turn it off, vacuum ones have burned me too many times on kaw triples and a few GS's in the past.  The only paid work i -ever- do is on 2 strokes, so no worries there either. Have a pretty gnarly aprilia RS250 SP in the shop getting worked over right now that is demanding my attention though.  :motonoises: 
 
Don't worry Steve from sunny Florida, I've got all the crappy Connie's that nobody wants! I've been riding with the COG guys for probably ten years or more and having only the old V65, had been wondering what the Connie's were like. But with a 25" inseam, they weren't in the future for me! Had the V65 from new and after falling down with it for eight years I finally made the mistake of buying the wrong set of shocks for her, and after installing the 2" too short shock and thinking the bike had fallen into a hole when I pushed it off the center stand, BINGO, instant lowering kit!
    Due to the alignment of the stars, I had an offer for a 2001 Connie for a price even I could afford! But when I explained to a friend that I couldn't buy the bike because of the seat height problem and a lowering kit was too pricey, he made me an offer I couldn't refuse: Help me with some work on his CBX, and detail his black Buick and stripe it, and he'd buy me the lowering kit! BINGO!
    When I got the 2001 I realized that half of the fairing pieces were missing, plus it didn't run worth a damn, and oh yeah, the deal was that I had to take his '96 doaner bike also! Then I get a phone call that a guy (COG member) was selling his 2001 Connie with 312,000 miles on it. The motor, driveline and final drive were really tired, BUT, all the body parts were there, plus a huge amount of extras that included lights, Heli bars, a host of other improvements. AND, he would deliver it to me from WA!
    So here I am, 74 years old, a Vet, one foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel, in a two car garage with a V65, and two 2001 Connie's, an engine lathe, Drill press, welder, rollaways, etc, tripping over my own feet half the time because of lack of space, and the other Connie is over my friends place with all the other parts not needed at this time, but I've got the set of '96 carbs in the process of being rebuilt and "Overflowrized!"
    So since I have three sets of carbs, I figured I might as well rebuild all three sets and do the Tube Job on all of them, so maybe I can recoup some of my money on E-bay. And now you know the rest of the story!
    And Steve from Sunny Florida, thank you for your very generous, and vital information about this very important procedure, I wouldn't think of taking any business away from you. If I was able to afford it, you'd be doing the work and not me! I'd rather be riding!
                                    V65 Bill
 
m in sc said:
no worries here, i get where you are coming from with the 8mm, like said, i've had -zero- issues with mine. No spilling, no sloshing, no drips. I also use a manual petcok and always turn it off, vacuum ones have burned me too many times on kaw triples and a few GS's in the past.  The only paid work i -ever- do is on 2 strokes, so no worries there either. Have a pretty gnarly aprilia RS250 SP in the shop getting worked over right now that is demanding my attention though.  :motonoises:
Post up some pics of that when you get a chance.  Always interested in what you're working on. :great:
 
Yeah, I know, another older thread. FWIW - a piece I found a little earlier had a fella finding a CVK32 carb with an OEM overflow tube already installed. He found that the tube was sitting 0.34” (8.636mm) above the bowl’s gasket surface. Steve’s 8mm seems to be right on.

If you get the hole size correct, the best way to secure the brass tube is by a shrink fit (heat the bowl, chill the tube before inserting). No sealant/”gluing” necessary. Steve’s interference fit also works well too since he seems to have the hole size down pat. However, if you find things too loose, first clean and tin the insertion end of the tube with solder, then press it into place. This will provide a secure fit as the thin coat of solder takes up the slack, but it also provides a good seal. I haven’t done any overflow tubes, but using this method when repairing the petcocks on vintage bikes when the standpipes have corroded away, or have been broken off, works well; there are no “standard” sizes. Providing a cleaned up hole in the body and treating the tube with a solder coating always seems to work.
 
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Of note.

Some authorities now believe solder, JB weld, and other epoxy derivatives will not stand immersion in ethanol fuel.
These measures are fuel resistant but not fuel proof.

Novolac epoxy derivatives are an exception. If can be found in small amount needed.

I had only one of four fail from DIY press fit. Went on with it and tried solder, JB, and several epoxies all failing.

Finally used Caswell tank liner epoxy to seal the one. Then went back and did all four as a security measure.
Had some left over from tank lining.

Of note I am on record believing Steve is the way to go. Saying that after I did my own too.

You get a warranty and a no filler press fit. D@%n fine offering there.
 
Of note.

Some authorities now believe solder, JB weld, and other epoxy derivatives will not stand immersion in ethanol fuel.
These measures are fuel resistant but not fuel proof.

Novolac epoxy derivatives are an exception. If can be found in small amount needed.

I had only one of four fail from DIY press fit. Went on with it and tried solder, JB, and several epoxies all failing.

Finally used Caswell tank liner epoxy to seal the one. Then went back and did all four as a security measure.
Had some left over from tank lining.

Of note I am on record believing Steve is the way to go. Saying that after I did my own too.

You get a warranty and a no filler press fit. D@%n fine offering there.

"Some authorities now believe solder........"

Care to tell me where you found that little nugget?

I know for a fact that some submerged fuel pumps and fuel gauge sending units from the factory live in the (gas) fuel tanks of vehicles.
 
"Some authorities now believe solder........"

Care to tell me where you found that little nugget?

I know for a fact that some submerged fuel pumps and fuel gauge sending units from the factory live in the (gas) fuel tanks of vehicles.
Going to sight just one as example below. If interested the net is full of such.

Have no dog in it. Save saving someone unnecessary grief.

I did my own experiments and net research when I had one DIY tube fail. Was trying to fix my failure to drill properly in first place. Did not jig bowl adequately in drill press would suspect. Solder lasted longest but failed in end between tube and float bowl.

The fact that you see solder joints, as I do too, is probably more to do with mixture of metals available on an industrial scale.
For DiY'ers we are not always privy to such tech or alchemy.

Would research such some more for you but as I have solved my problem with NOVOLAC epoxy am on to other things.

"The next section added 26th February, 2012.

Many will be aware of the problems of the adding of Ethanol to our petrol and its ability to ‘un-solder’ joints in fuel pipes and floats in carburetters (the Ethanol dissolves the lead and tin in the solder). The percentage of Ethanol in our fuel is about to rise from 5% to 10%. The company who now owns the SU name is Burlen Fuel Services. They are busy preparing a kit for the type of SU fitted to the MG Y Type."

 
PS..... Steve is not a DIYer on tubes.

My lost time and would have been needless experimentation would not have been necessary if I had bowls done by him.

If I had no trouble with the one of them might think differently.
 
Last edited:
Going to sight just one as example below. If interested the net is full of such.

Have no dog in it. Save saving someone unnecessary grief.

I did my own experiments and net research when I had one DIY tube fail. Was trying to fix my failure to drill properly in first place. Did not jig bowl adequately in drill press would suspect. Solder lasted longest but failed in end between tube and float bowl.

The fact that you see solder joints, as I do too, is probably more to do with mixture of metals available on an industrial scale.
For DiY'ers we are not always privy to such tech or alchemy.

Would research such some more for you but as I have solved my problem with NOVOLAC epoxy am on to other things.

"The next section added 26th February, 2012.

Many will be aware of the problems of the adding of Ethanol to our petrol and its ability to ‘un-solder’ joints in fuel pipes and floats in carburetters (the Ethanol dissolves the lead and tin in the solder). The percentage of Ethanol in our fuel is about to rise from 5% to 10%. The company who now owns the SU name is Burlen Fuel Services. They are busy preparing a kit for the type of SU fitted to the MG Y Type."


Good enough. Guess I've been living under a rocck for too long.
 
Good enough. Guess I've been living under a rocck for too long.
Do not know about that!

Ted said last time this was discussed that he and his dad had used dope coated cork as floats in carbs.
I may be suffering a memory mis- congruence on this.

Kinda sure it is a pretty close facsimile of his statement.
 
Never knew you could solder aluminum ?
You can not to my knowledge.

But as solder is a friction fit and binds dissimilar substrate metals by friction alone you can cheat some.

By example if you sweat a brass tube with solder and place it molten in an aluminum hole it will seal by friction as solder cools.

Some do well with flux and capillary type suction in the conventional way. But acid in flux has it's problems with aluminum.

Me I cheated.

Still only lasted a short time but way longer than JB and epoxy each submersed in ethanol fuel.

Hope all this helps someone.
 
Do not know about that!

Ted said last time this was discussed that he and his dad had used dope coated cork as floats in carbs.
I may be suffering a memory mis- congruence on this.

Kinda sure it is a pretty close facsimile of his statement.
Oh! I meant airplane dope for the record. Would not want to slander anyone!
 
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