Just took the MSF ERC and , pffft

[millsan1]

Like many, I have been riding for years and started way before MSF was the norm.  I do, however, practice my riding techniques all the time while riding.  I am always practicing quick direction changes, rapid acceleration/deceleration, slow speed maneuvers, etc.  I also do a lot of slow speed maneuvers in parking lots.  I try to stop with out touching down as often as possible.  I do slow races with myself or my GF all the time, etc.  Basically, I am always trying to improve my skills.

I watched "Ride like a Pro" and did learn a new trick.  The trick of riding your rear brake and slipping the clutch for slow speed maneuvering.  That comes in real handy.

I am a HUGE believer in the MSF BRC and have pushed many people to that course and refuse to "teach" anyone how to ride.  IMHO, the BRC is the best way to learn how to ride.  I have sent at least a dozen people through the class.

This past May, my GF took the BRC.  She then took a one on one lesson with an exceptional MSF instructor.  Since then, she has put down about 5,000 miles on her BMW F800ST.

Her riding is greatly improved and she rides well, not well for a new rider, but just plain old well.  Whenever we ride together, we are constantly on our SENA SMH10 (great units) speaking about road conditions, threats, planned reactions, etc.  (SIPDE)

All this being said, I thought she would be well served by taking the MSF ERC.  Having never taken any formal classes, I figured I would take the course as well.  I went into the course believing there was a 50/50 chance I would learn something useful, or be wasting time and money.

The school we attended and the instructors were excellent.  I did not gain anything from the class, however.  The exercises were good, but nothing interesting and basically the same exact exercises as the BRC (according to my GF).  As a proof that I did not pick up anything from the class, I literally had zero coaching.  Coaching was reserved for people who needed some guidance on how to better complete the exercise.  I missed one cone all day, and nailed every other exercise.  The one coaching session I got was this "You comfortable?"  "Yes, seems straightforward"  "OK.  Good job".

We took the class with a large number of HD riders.  They were all from the same HOG Chapter.  Of course, the first interaction was:

HOG Member "Which HOG Chapter are you in?"
Me "I do not ride a Harley"
HOG Member "Oh I am sorry for you"
Me "I'm not.  you couldn't give me one of those POS, poseur bikes.  I ride my bike, not polish it."
HOG Member <sits there dumbfounded> Because we are all supposed to be in awe and wish we rode Harleys and when they put our bike's down, we are supposed to say something like "We are all one family, just happy we are all on two wheels, blah blah blah."  F that.  I tell them where I stand and I hate those bikes.  As a side note, I worked in a HD Dealer as a mechanic for 5 years.

Anyway, back to the class.

One thing the class did confirm for me is how bad many "experienced" riders ride.  Several of the riders in the class were lifetime riders with north of 30 years riding.  The balance were at least 10 year riders.  There was 1 rider there that knew how to handle his bike.  The balance were TERRIBLE and got only marginally better during the day.  This was not for lack of coaching and input from the MSF Instructors, as there was a great deal of coaching going on.  These people just were not listening, nor taking the training.



Some of the brilliance I heard from these "experienced" riders.

If I am going to hit a car, I am gonna get on the gas.  I would rather go over the top than under the wheels.

You can't lock up the front wheel and then release it.  As soon as the front wheel locks, you go down.

My bike is incapable of these maneuvers (NVM that the instructor just showed us the maneuver on the EXACT SAME BIKE)

I am too big to do these maneuvers.

I am too small to muscle my bike through these maneuvers.

My helmet is not DOT (it was a peanut), but it is made from Carbon Fiber (It was a sticker), so it will protect me better than any DOT helmet.

You should always pull in the clutch in turns, it slows you down.

Never use the front brake, you will go over the handlebars.  (I offered that person $100 if they could get their rear wheel 1" off the ground.  They did not take me up on it.)

I go to Daytona, Sturgis, Biketober fest andLaconia every year.  Me: You ride to those?  No, I take my trailer.  It is too far to ride.

You sure your GF should be in this class?  She has only been riding a few months.  (There were 3 people in the class who nailed every exercise, every pass.  Me, my GF and a very nice guy on his HD)

So, long story short, HD riders are poseur wanna be riders, if you are honestly a skilled rider, the ERC is not for you, and I am very proud of my GF and honestly asses her at the top 20% of riders on the road today, as far as skill goes.

 

[S Smith]

True, the ERC does use some of the same exercises as the BRC for limited space, max braking, swerving, and corning. The difference between this and BRC is that the skills are practiced on your own bike instead of a 125 or 250 trainer.

In all the rider training I have taught or participated in, there were no perfect riders and always room for improvement.  Not to say your riding skills were not above the rest of the class you participated in, but I suspect the lack of coaching/correction you experienced may have been due to the instructors being overwhelmed by the needs of the others in contrast to your own.

If you can find it in your area, you may find the MSF ARC-ST course interesting.  Or consider Total Control or one of the track schools like California Superbike School.

 

[davemuir]

The only thing I got out of this story is that you are a brand bashing idiot and evidently your :: don't stink.
The only leason you'll ever learn is after the accident you'll have believing you know it all.
You know what, you probably won't learn anything then either, you'll just look for someone or something else to blame 

 

[rcannon409]

I "earned" my mc license in 1982. Training was as follows. Stop in dvm, give them money. This was for the two week learners permit.

Show up in two weeks. Complete 2 left turns, two right turns. Go through some cones....12 feet apart and make a "panic stop" when the instructor dropped his arm.  CONGRATS!  If you only make one or two mistakes, you were now a motorcylist.  It was harder to join Sams Club.

Most people then went the next 10, 20, 30 years or so without any training as it was not required.  And after a few miles on the road, we all feel like we're doing things the right way.

 

[millsan1]

The only thing I got out of this story is that you are a brand bashing idiot and evidently your :: don't stink.
The only leason you'll ever learn is after the accident you'll have believing you know it all.
You know what, you probably won't learn anything then either, you'll just look for someone or something else to blame 

Well, I hate HD and the Poseur riders.  I do not take it when people give the me "rice burner" speech.  I freely admit I do not like the bike nor the majority of the riders.  This is based on working on the bike and with the people.  Guess what?  I am allowed.

Your statement about me knowing it all is based on what?  As I said, I took this course with an open mind.  I did every exercise, perfectly, with 1 exception, which was the last cone in my first offset weave and I missed it by about 2 inches.  Beyond that, I performed perfectly.  What did I learn?

I have crashed, a bunch of times, both on the track and on the street.  And guess what?  Each and every one was my fault.

I was pointing out my experience and observations. 

 

[millsan1]

True, the ERC does use some of the same exercises as the BRC for limited space, max braking, swerving, and corning. The difference between this and BRC is that the skills are practiced on your own bike instead of a 125 or 250 trainer.

In all the rider training I have taught or participated in, there were no perfect riders and always room for improvement.  Not to say your riding skills were not above the rest of the class you participated in, but I suspect the lack of coaching/correction you experienced may have been due to the instructors being overwhelmed by the needs of the others in contrast to your own.

If you can find it in your area, you may find the MSF ARC-ST course interesting.  Or consider Total Control or one of the track schools like California Superbike School.

Yeah, Total Control is high on my list.  Did not get to it this year, but definitely going to do it next year.  I have raced in the past and have a lot of track training.  I was more interested in finding out whether or not my street skills were at the level I thought they were at.

 

[millsan1]

I "earned" my mc license in 1982. Training was as follows. Stop in dvm, give them money. This was for the two week learners permit.

Show up in two weeks. Complete 2 left turns, two right turns. Go through some cones....12 feet apart and make a "panic stop" when the instructor dropped his arm.  CONGRATS!  If you only make one or two mistakes, you were now a motorcylist.  It was harder to join Sams Club.

Most people then went the next 10, 20, 30 years or so without any training as it was not required.  And after a few miles on the road, we all feel like we're doing things the right way.

Yep, this is actually my point.  For the rest of the riders in the class, with the exception of me, my GF and the one rider, they picked up a lot.  I am not saying the course is bad, I am saying that if YOU, as a rider, practice your slow speed skills, higher speed skills, and pay attention to making sure your abilities are up to par, this course probably is not helpful.

And also, as I said, I am a HUGE proponent of the BRC.  It is the only way to learn, as far as I am concerned.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Was this really nessary? This thread could have been accomplished without some of it's content. I don't care for brand bashing myself. The resulting posts show that noting good comes from it. I'm locking this thread to let y'all step back and think about the posts, and whether they were nessasary in their content. Maybe next time you can approach this differently. Jim's the actual Moderator on this section. Maybe he will feel it's not too bad and unlock it. That's up to Jim. But if he does, try to stay on the real topic and not so much the hate for other riders and their machines.  :105: