Motorcycling Myths

[S Smith]

Another fine example of "Hollyweird Hype" over learning proper braking and serving skills.  (although most can appreciate the attractive show host) A sure way to make me cringe is to be within earshot of someone who tells a novice rider things like... "Never use the front brake because it will send you over the bars" or "lay the bike down to avoid a crash."  My inner voice is screaming... "Yo dude... laying down the bike is a crash!!" 

What are your thoughts?  Know any other motorcycling myths?


Stuntbusters: Motorcycle Crash

 

[Gypsy JR]

Biggest myth I know of is, don't lock both front and brake (not that you can ever lock the front brake above 15mph - lol) when you absolutely, positively have to stop. Lets say, no evasion route, no escape route, either slam into it or stop.

I've seen that close up (riding behind someone who had no choice but to stop in travel path - inline) so I know its a myth that "you should never do it".

Besides, I've been to 3 MSF Experience Rider courses where they had exercises to show you exactly this: it can save your ass, but is a last choice. Counter-steer around, take an open escape path, if nothing is available, employ maximum braking which is max pressure on both brakes.

I know you cannot really do that on a C14, but I can on my ZX14. Heck you cannot even do it on the 2012 ZX14 anymore, if you have ABS. But I could do a stoppie with my front brake locked if I was as brave as I used to be. I'm not.

Another myth I've heard over the last 50 years is helmets don't do any good. Not giving it more than two sentences.

Sort of a myth, going to MSF classes won't teach you anything. Also comes under the heading "I already know how to ride". BS.... Anyone who attends a MSF class and doesn't improve is either braindead or has a number sticker on a race bike with an AMA number on it.

Still in that vein, its ok to just watch "Ride Like a Pro" and "Surviving the Mean Streets", you don't need to do the riding exercises. More BS. If you could learn just by watching the video, all of us would be on the leader board for the MotoGP championship.

I'd list the myth you have to change synthetic oil in a motorcycle every 3,000 miles, but I don't want the argument. Oh wait, I just listed it. My bad!  :beerchug:

Another myth, LED light kits in the side- and top-case and decaying pulse rate brakelights don't help in daylight. Not giving that more than 2 sentences either.

My favorite myth of all time, loud pipes save lives. I think its just the opposite. Discuss.

Man, winter is harsh like always. Starting to install the Rostra cc I got from Murph on my ZX14, and the Denali D2 lights this weekend. Plus since I have to take the cowling off, I'll put the euro led front turn signals on, and might as well get the SpeedoHealer v4 installed since I dropped a tooth on the front sprocket. All that will help alleviate "winter anxiety". LOL.

Oh, and in advance.....  :truce:

 

[connie_rider]

Pravateer you hit most of them that I can think of right now.
On the helmet thing, I had a guy tell me that wearing helmets was worse than not wearing them...
Said the extra weight would break your neck in an accident.....    so he didn't wear one!  :rotflmao:

Ride safe, Ted

 

[willyp]

Ya typical Hollywood stunt, but no pretense otherwise. Maybe I missed it but I did not get the impression they were advocating a lay-down to avoid a crash, in fact the words were something to the effect that the crash was UN-avoidable, and the lay-down was intended to reduce personal injury. As was pointed out in the video, once you lay down you have given up and chance of avoiding a crash. When your butt is sliding on the ground you have absolutely no control at all, and I think the video did a good job of pointing that out. I think laying down was the wrong response to the hay bale scenario, though.

But that wasn't really your point, I know people who ride and talk about laying down the bike like it is some holy grail of riding technique, and those same people (the same ones who think their Harley are real fast bikes) look at the front brake as purely a place to hang more chrome. Those are the two biggest myths, and I even suck a jab at Harley in there for good measure.

 

[S Smith]

Biggest myth I know of is, don't lock both front and brake (not that you can ever lock the front brake above 15mph - lol) when you absolutely, positively have to stop. Lets say, no evasion route, no escape route, either slam into it or stop.

John - you hit many excellent points. 

In the MSF program the term "locking the brakes" is taught to cause total cessation of wheel movement and tire skid, which is undesirable.  What I think you meant is "Maximum Braking," which MSF defines as maximum application of both brakes without locking either wheel.

Motorcycles with ABS make this a more challenging skill to master, because instincts tend to lean to "lock the brakes" and let the ABS do the work.  In theory, when ABS kicks in it will actually cause total braking distance to be longer than is maximum braking technique is used.

 

[Gypsy JR]

Pravateer you hit most of them that I can think of right now.
On the helmet thing, I had a guy tell me that wearing helmets was worse than not wearing them...
Said the extra weight would break your neck in an accident.....    so he didn't wear one!  :rotflmao:

Ride safe, Ted

There is a big wheel in the Maryland ABATE chapter in my mc. His reason for wanting helmet law repealed in MD is because its his "right" to ride without a helmet. He won't even try to medically justify it because he knows the stats and demographics.

He knows that almost nobody is killed because of a helmet, and almost nobody is saved because of a helmet when its an impact event. But almost is everyone is saved from brain damage, facial disfiguration, etc. who wears a helmet during a slide, a low side, and even most high sides where impact is not made with an immovable object.

This is why I was wearing a helmet decades before they were mandatory. All the time. I dated nurses at the Army hospitals where I was stationed, and after hearing their "testimony" it was clear, helmets save lives, save faces, save skulls, save ears, save chins, and there is no reason not wear one.

Singing to the choir, of course.

I am bent on losing 20 more pounds so I can wear a) heated gear, and b) my ballistic nylon gear - both vented/mesh and not - with AMA-spec pads, so that I don't have some orderly / nursing assistant picking gravel out of my skin with tweezers for an hour or two. The one time I had a bad accident, when I threw my ZX11 away in an uphill 90 degree off-camber turn in the Santa Cruz Mountains, I was wearing all the gear. The helmet got ground down to the pads on the right side, and I got a nasty road rash on my right outer shin where the leather burned through (!), and pulled every muscle in my body, but a month later I was almost healed, and already riding again.

I may not ride with my American Legion Riders chapters anymore. They ride too close in formation, they don't wear helmets when we are, for example, in PA, and they don't wear any gear - hardly any gloves, hardly any jackets, heck hardly any vests. I just don't want to see what might happen if we get cut off or someone goes down in a curve the way they ride. Love the guys and girls, my fellow veterans, but that mentality is just too much for me to bear thinking about what might happen.

Ok, done.  :-[

I need a drink, too bad I'm at work.  :motonoises:

 

[Gypsy JR]

Biggest myth I know of is, don't lock both front and brake (not that you can ever lock the front brake above 15mph - lol) when you absolutely, positively have to stop. Lets say, no evasion route, no escape route, either slam into it or stop.

John - you hit many excellent points. 

In the MSF program the term "locking the brakes" is taught to cause total cessation of wheel movement and tire skid, which is undesirable.  What I think you meant is "Maximum Braking," which MSF defines as maximum application of both brakes without locking either wheel.

Motorcycles with ABS make this a more challenging skill to master, because instincts tend to lean to "lock the brakes" and let the ABS do the work.  In theory, when ABS kicks in it will actually cause total braking distance to be longer than is maximum braking technique is used.

Actually, Steve, the last two MSF Experience Rider courses I took (as recently as 2011) we did in fact, as directed, grab a handful of front brake and stomp the foot (rear) brake. It proves by doing that you can control the bike, keep it straight, and stop very fast on good pavement with the rear brake locked and smoking.

The example I gave, the lady in front of me had a van driver pull off the shoulder on our side, across our lane, trying to U-turn. He let 3 bikes go past, then pulled out. When he saw her he hit the brakes like a deer in headlights. She locked the rear tire up, I watched the front end dive under heavy front brake, and smoke came off the rear tire. She stopped 3 feet short of the van. Her path was almost dead straight since she kept sitting upright, head up, looking at the spot in front of the van where she wanted to be stopped by.

She could not escape, there was no route. Had she not exerted MAXIMUM braking including locking the rear up (long time ago CHP proved locking the brakes and skidding rear tires produced absolutely shorted stop distance in the absence of ABS) she would have been dead. We were doing 40mph when she started.

Inability to respond as she did would have been a disaster, and I had a ringside seat watching her do it, in slow motion, while I was bringing my bike to a stop as well.

I did not in that case have to lock the rear brake, the braking on my ZX14 is so awesome I'd have to be totally on top of that van to have to brake that hard. But I know I could do it, because I've done it while being graded.

 

[willyp]

It's a myth that, just because everyone SHOULD wear a helmet, that the state should REQUIRE everyone to wear a helmet. If we go down that road, we could just as easily say everyone should install a steel safety cage around the entire bike and rider, and limit horsepower to some arbitrary number, say, 98hp. And while we are at it, this whole two wheel thing is kinda dangerous and might cause a crash, we should require all motorcycles to be equipped with at least four. And airbags, too. And with all that gear on someone could have a heat stroke so perhaps air conditioning should be required, after all it will get pretty hot inside that steel cage.

 

[S Smith]

Ya typical Hollywood stunt, but no pretense otherwise. Maybe I missed it but I did not get the impression they were advocating a lay-down to avoid a crash, in fact the words were something to the effect that the crash was UN-avoidable, and the lay-down was intended to reduce personal injury.

What got me was at 28sec in they try to give the segment credibility by stating that this is a technique taught in motorcycle safety and police training.  I've never taken or taught police motor training, but I darn well know laying down the bike is not discussed, never mnid taught, as an option to avoid a crash.

 

[boomer]

The only reason I can think of for "laying it down" is to minimise injuries.
Lowside accidents you can sometimes walk away from, but Highsides almost always cause broken bones.
I was taught when riding MX in my teens to always throw the bike away when the crash was inevitable.
Of course you crash regularly in MX so I got pretty good at it.  :-[

As for motorcycle myths, my favourite is that all motorcyclists are motherhumpin' beer drinkin' hard fightin' gun totin' rebels.
Personally, I couldn't be farther from that image, and most other motorcyclists I've met are all equally (but in vastly different ways) far from that stereotype. A far better stereotype would be individualists.

 

[Sport rider]

....... But almost is everyone is saved from brain damage, facial disfiguration, etc. who wears a helmet during a slide, a low side, and even most high sides where impact is not made with an immovable object.

Not meaning to offend, but this one really struck me when I read it.  This is so totally not true.  I'm not an advocate of riding without a helmet (but I am pro choice), but I've had a number of wrecks, particularly at the track where I've low-sided and slid and never once did my helmet even touch the ground.  I realize there are situations in any type of wreck where helmets certainly make a difference (otherwise I wouldn't wear one, right?), but we should be careful about making accurate statements when we try to explain to the helmetless riders why we consider it safer to wear them.  Just saying, and again, no offense intended. 

 

[S Smith]

....... But almost is everyone is saved from brain damage, facial disfiguration, etc. who wears a helmet during a slide, a low side, and even most high sides where impact is not made with an immovable object.

Not meaning to offend, but this one really struck me when I read it.  This is so totally not true.  I'm not an advocate of riding without a helmet (but I am pro choice), but I've had a number of wrecks, particularly at the track where I've low-sided and slid and never once did my helmet even touch the ground.  I realize there are situations in any type of wreck where helmets certainly make a difference (otherwise I wouldn't wear one, right?), but we should be careful about making accurate statements when we try to explain to the helmetless riders why we consider it safer to wear them.  Just saying, and again, no offense intended. 

The way I read it, Privateer's statement never implied helmet use having anything to do with the head hitting the ground or not...

If I were to take a SWAG, your experience of your head not hitting the ground at all is not the norm.  I might be convinced it could fall into the myth category, but I know there are low-side cases where the rider's head did not hit the ground - especially on the track wearing track gear. In a crash the body can be flung to the ground and that huge, heavy melon on top of the shoulders whips in the direction of the impact.

Here is a personal anecdote...

Many years ago I had a student in a beginner class who, during a break between exercises, boldly made the following statement to of the shiny new H-D branded, DOT approved, 1/2 helmet he held in his hands...  "I only got this thing cause I need to wear it in the class. I'm not gonna wear it when I ride. None of friends wear 'em. I'll just hold my head up when I fall."

Fast forward to the Max Braking exercise and he locks up the front brake on his first run and the bike goes down at about 5 MPH, into a minor high side, tossing his body (and head) to the ground.  As students gathered after the exercise to debrief they were looking at the gouges and scratches on his new helmet. After the debrief I asked "How's the helmet?"  His response was... "I may have to rethink wearing a helmet."

 

[Sport rider]

Absolutely true Steve, and I don't want to imply that crashes never have helmet hits.  At the track we are all VERY critical of helmet condition and pay a LOT of attention any time there is a get-off.  Helmets are personally inspected and also inspected by track "officials".  It's definitely not a myth in my case, but I do realize it's not "norm" either.  However, I don't think we should assume it's always the case.  That's all I was trying to point out.

 

[Gypsy JR]

Absolutely true Steve, and I don't want to imply that crashes never have helmet hits.  At the track we are all VERY critical of helmet condition and pay a LOT of attention any time there is a get-off.  Helmets are personally inspected and also inspected by track "officials".  It's definitely not a myth in my case, but I do realize it's not "norm" either.  However, I don't think we should assume it's always the case.  That's all I was trying to point out.

I just want to point out, having been on the track a lot as a young man, that what happens on the track has about zero to do with what happens off the track.

Pea gravel at the corners. No guard rails. No tractor-trailers. No idiots with cell-phones. No couples arguing about something and not paying attention. No drunks running stop signs/lights......

Not my street world, but your mileage may vary.

When I threw my ZX11 away, it was a lowside get off at 60mph. My helmet saved my melon, and my face, because this is the sequence until I eventually slid off the road onto the grass - slide on belly, roll to side, cartwheel, land on back, try to splay, cartwheel, land on side, roll to back, splay, slide off the road. That helmet saved my life, and my face and head in general, three times plus sliding off the road by which time I was beat so bad I was limp.

My whole point is, and I doubt we disagree, the helmet won't keep you alive in an impact (like our dear lost Simoncelli) but it will save you from more severe injurys in a non-impact accident.

About the point, above, that the issue is the State (i.e, the Federal Gov't) shouldn't mandage helmets. Its not really the issue. PA told the Federal Gov't to go suck it, and repealed mandatory helmet laws. Blame your State legislators. And even granting the wrongness of the Federal Gov't. making me wear a helmet (I'm with ya 100% on that) it has nothing to do with the myth that helmets either don't help, or cause more harm than help. My ABATE friend knows thats not true, he knows its a myth. He just wants the State to get out of the nanny mode and leave us to decide on our own.

I agree. But I will still think someone who goes without a helmet is a total idiot. And someone I don't want to be friends with, because I already lost enough friends.

 

[willyp]

that the issue is the State (i.e, the Federal Gov't)

My comment was State, as in State Govt. Though would apply to either as my feeling is that Federal Govt has no business in this at all.

 

[Gypsy JR]

that the issue is the State (i.e, the Federal Gov't)

My comment was State, as in State Govt. Though would apply to either as my feeling is that Federal Govt has no business in this at all.

Agree.

But the State (as in mine, MD, or yours) has a constitutional right to legislate anything it wants as long as it doesn't contradict federal law or explicitly violate the Constitution or Bill of Rights. And neither document grants you a right to decide to wear a helmet or not, so it is fair game for State legislation.

The intent of the constitutional assembly was that States would be highly autonomous legislatively, and that citizens could leave a State that had laws they disagreed with. This is still true today, except the Federal Gov't. has completely overstepped its authority for the last 50 years. With luck, this will all unravel this year. But today, if not wearing a helmet is important enough to you, there are States you can move to and not wear a helmet.

 

[davemuir]

But I will still think someone who goes without a helmet is a total idiot. And someone I don't want to be friends with, because I already lost enough friends.

Really.... Good to know....

 

[Cap'n Bob]

But I will still think someone who goes without a helmet is a total idiot. And someone I don't want to be friends with, because I already lost enough friends.

Really.... Good to know....

Oh boy, here we go. I'm sure you guys would get along great. John just doesn't want to lose you before he even had the honor of meeting you Dave. I'm sure he really didn't mean that colorful name he used. 

 

[davemuir]

Oh, it's a well established fact that I'm an idiot....  >

 

[rev ryder]

But I will still think someone who goes without a helmet is a total idiot. And someone I don't want to be friends with, because I already lost enough friends.

Really.... Good to know....

Oh boy, here we go. I'm sure you guys would get along great. John just doesn't want to lose you before he even had the honor of meeting you Dave. I'm sure he really didn't mean that colorful name he used. 

Now there Bob, you know Dave doesn't need translating until AFTER the Tomato wine.    :-\

Hey, when are we gonna git that lil popcorn dude?   

SHADDUP REV!

yessir  :truce:

 

[rev ryder]

Oh, it's a well established fact that I'm an idiot....  >

Akshully he said TOTAL idiot.

And while your TOTAL lack of disregard, at times, for the containment of your head's contents is a well established fact, I would respectully beg to differ about your being an idiot.  Cuz you're one of my heroes and what would that say about me?  :beerchug:

 

[2linby]

Oh, it's a well established fact that I'm an idiot....  >

Thought I'd never see the day!  Finally!  :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Dave! My Man!  You are truly on the road to recovery! Or perhaps you're just getting more smarterer..........  :nananana:

PS: This ain't one of those motorcycle myths, is it??  :-\

 

[Ranger Jim]

Dave! You are one of my favorite members. I fully respect your intelligence and, more importantly, your willingness to accept RISK, I cannot consider you, in any respect, an idiot. The CHOICE to wear or not wear a helmet is not (necessarily) always based on intelligence.

Do I wear a helmet. YES.
Do I always wear a helmet? YES
Do I think that everyone should be required by law to wear a helmet? NO.
Do I think that those who CHOOSE not to are idiots? NO.  For the most part, these are intelligent people who recognize the potential risk that failure to wear a helmet dictates. They value their personal choice above the potential risk.

PLEASE guys, we've been down this road before. NO ONE'S mind has been changed. If you choose to wear a helmet; GOOD FOR YOU! If you choose to not wear a helmet; we wish you'd re-consider. Don't call names or pretend to be "holier than thou." We're all COG members here.

 

[S Smith]

Let's get back on topic please....

 

[2linby]

Myth: You can steer out of a rear wheel skid.
Myth: Never use your front brake in an emergency
Myth: Learn how to lay your bike down before you crash
Myth: A couple drinks won't affect your riding ability
Myth: I don't need my gear cause I am only going for a short ride
Myth: Steve knows everything
Myth: Daves an idiot
Myth: When you get your endorsement you don't need any more training

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Myth: You can steer out of a rear wheel skid.
Myth: Never use your front brake in an emergency
Myth: Learn how to lay your bike down before you crash
Myth: A couple drinks won't affect your riding ability
Myth: I don't need my gear cause I am only going for a short ride
Myth: Steve knows everything
Myth: Daves an idiot
Myth: When you get your endorsement you don't need any more training

Why would you need anymore training, when you already know how to ride?  Oh, that's another thread, right!  )

 

[ChipDoc]

One of the motorcycling myths I enjoy hearing bandied about is "The radar can't see you - the bike's too small a target!"

This one's actually got some basis in reality; the radar will pick up a car at about twice the distance it'll pick up a bike, but make no mistake, it WILL see you.  DAMHIK

 

[carlson]

One of the motorcycling myths I enjoy hearing bandied about is "The radar can't see you - the bike's too small a target!"

This one's actually got some basis in reality; the radar will pick up a car at about twice the distance it'll pick up a bike, but make no mistake, it WILL see you.  DAMHIK

Hey, I bet laying down the bike can greatly reduce your radar signature!  :rotflmao:

 

[Hogboy]

Chaps work.

 

[ron203]

Chaps?  Now we're talking about picking dates?  :-[  Its so confusing.... :'(

 

[CRocker]

Well...since we're heading back to the topic...the long way...I once had a HD type explain to me why his jeans were all oily and greasy...it was so he would be able to slide down the pavement instead of tumble when he had to "lay it down"...

 

[ron203]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Now, that's funny as a rubber crutch at a paraplegic convention.....

 

[Gypsy JR]

You have to understand that kind of motorcyclist, most often a Harley Davidson rider, or maybe not, because then you would be scared.

I have HD riders in my mc who tour. I mean, they do freaking 8,000 miles in a big loop of the country and call it a field trip. And one or two who don't own cars and ride 365 days a year in a county/state where it snows and shite in the winter. One of them is always Santa on a Harley when we take Christmas gifts to the girls home (taken away from abusive parents, etc.). And he is big in regional ABATE activities. Man knows how to ride. But seldom goes on rides with us.

None of these guys would say that about sliding when they "have" to lay the bike down.

The ones that say that ride 2,000 miles a year or less. Their bikes are either ratty or showroom new looking. They all share a complete lack of training (for whatever reason) and a complete lack of experience.

I have an example at work. She has a Sportster. Her battery is dead and has to be replaced every spring because she is too stupid to put it on a float charger during the winter. She thinks all Japanese motorcycles are crotch rockets, and that they account for almost all accidents and fatalities. She has NEVER took MSF or anything more than necessary to get a M endorsement. And I doubt she ever rides farther than to a local bar.

Thats the kind of biker that scares the heck out of me, despite the fact I like her personally. I would never ride within a city block of her.

 

[Ranger Jim]

In trying to return this thread more to the topic ... .  MOST myths have, somewhere deep in their origins, some element of truth. I wonder how many of these myths came into being?