The Zero DS electric motorcycle

[ChipDoc]

I spotted an article which said that Zero has begun production on the 2012 line.  I remember these guys from a couple of years ago when this just seemed like a good idea.  Then they duffed up a couple of prototypes, and now they've got a production run going.  I think it's a great idea for a commuter vehicle, though I think the Ironbutt is out until battery technology advances a bit.

Here's the video
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-ds/zero-ds-on-track-wm.html

 

[S Smith]

The all electric Zero motorcycle line up is becoming more viable as the company now reports some of their models get over 120 miles on a charge.  Discussions with other metro-NY moto-mag guy who had a brief opportunity to try the street version found he was surprisingly impressed, considering the limitations.  Size wise - it is comparable in stature to a Ninja 250.  I'm not ready to rush out and get one as my commuter, but I would be willing to take a demo unit to get a feel of its real capabilities. Hopefully there will be some long term test results, specifically on battery degradation and the effect on effective range.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

    The problem with electric motorcycles is probably always going to be the range. Although range isn't as much of a roadblock as is the problem of finding a place (as well as the time) to recharge the motorcycle. The only folks I can see having them is someone in a short distance commuter situation as already said.
    But for me, they are pretty much worthless. I personally can't see having a vehicle that can only go approximately 100 miles at best. Although other articles put the rang more at 43 miles. Then it's a problem in both time and locations to recharge them. The manufacturer  say it cost 1 cent per mile and has 114 mile range. I'm sure the price of electric does fluctuate like other fuels. So they're claims of one cent per mile makes it at approximately $1 to charge. Should I believe that this would always be the case? I don't know.
  Then IMO, the possibility of cost savings of running such a motorcycle as a commuter, is lost on the cost of purchasing the machine in the first place. It might even cost more. To pay over $10,000 for this motorcycle just doesn't work for me. I see no reason or advantage of purchasing this bike over a gas model. Well except to be able to say that your more green. Whether or not that is actually true.
  Although it could be decent urban transportation. More for someone who never leaves the city. Doesn't travel far that would require recharging more than once a day when at home (if they can charge it there). And never needs to carry much with them. Then I could maybe see owning one of these. Personally I would rather have a DR or KLR being a comparable gas bikes with less restrictions in almost every area. Again, just my opinion.

 

[ChipDoc]

I was browsing around their site a bit and found the Zero XU, which seems to implement a fresh idea in battery power!

The Zero XU is the world’s first street motorcycle that enables owners to essentially charge anywhere by way of an on-board charger, removable power pack and optional stand-alone charger. This allows owners to recharge without the requirement of garage or street-level charging at their homes or apartments. The removable pack also facilitates essentially non-stop usage by enabling individuals, or fleets, to quickly swap power packs. -Emphasis mine

Now THAT is a good idea!  At this point, the thing's only claiming 42 miles of range.  The ones with non-removable batteries claim over 100 miles in range, but I think it's a real step in the right direction.  And at under $8,000 it's not even outrageously overpriced.  One more nice thing - the whole line can take optional side bags and windscreen!

 

[willyp]

There has been some research into the idea of having stations with fully charged battery fluid, then you would just pull up to a pump and pump out your old, discharged fluid, and pump in new fluid. Or rather, recharged fluid. Something along this idea could really change the game. But this is still in the theory stage AFAIK.

 

[gsun]

My son has an electric bike (looks like a 50CC scooter) complete with saddle bags, really good lights, etc. He has disabilities that keep him from operating a licensed vehicle - he would have trouble being in traffic. He rides where bicycles do, under the same rules. This has been a lifesaver for him and us. He goes everywhere around town. He has found electric outlets all over. He ride rain or shine - only snow and ice stop him. He will be getting lithium ions batteries this year and the range will be extended to about 60kms. That is all you need for around town.
An electric motorcycle would be a step up for a city commuter. The technology is fairly new and will only improve. And the torque is amazing on an electric motor! For the city, it's a good thing.

 

[2linby]

There has been some research into the idea of having stations with fully charged battery fluid, then you would just pull up to a pump and pump out your old, discharged fluid, and pump in new fluid. Or rather, recharged fluid. Something along this idea could really change the game. But this is still in the theory stage AFAIK.

And maybe, just maybe this "battery fluid" could be non-ethanol too!  :nananana:

 

[oldsawfiler]

Yes and less than $5.00/gal exchange

 

[willyp]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid. As far as the price I think comparing the price per gallon to gasoline is irrelevant, what would be more telling is the price per mile. And would you get credit for partially discharged fluid? IE, if you pulled into a station at 50% discharge, would you pay less to exchange than if you were at 95%?

 

[bergmen]

My son has an electric bike (looks like a 50CC scooter) complete with saddle bags, really good lights, etc. He has disabilities that keep him from operating a licensed vehicle - he would have trouble being in traffic. He rides where bicycles do, under the same rules. This has been a lifesaver for him and us. He goes everywhere around town. He has found electric outlets all over. He ride rain or shine - only snow and ice stop him. He will be getting lithium ions batteries this year and the range will be extended to about 60kms. That is all you need for around town.
An electric motorcycle would be a step up for a city commuter. The technology is fairly new and will only improve. And the torque is amazing on an electric motor! For the city, it's a good thing.

There are areas where I think electric motorcycles will excel, this is one of them. There are some intrinsic, attractive advantages to electric motorcycles (over electric cars which are much heavier requiring far more power and much larger batterries). There are no starting problems, no leaky gasoline, balky engines, etc. They are quiet and generally smooth, little to no vibration. To me, I think they would make superb urban commuter vehicles. A known distance to work and to home, recharge at work if necessary to make it home. Range management becomes an absolute necessity to keep from wheezing to a stop far from home, but that just comes with the territory, same as a gas guage on an engine driven vehicle.

Something in the form of a narrow trike-type layout could make this vehicle very attractive to those that cannot operate motor vehicles (like gsun's son). The elderly, or somewhat disabled could be free to move about town for shopping, school, work, whatever.

Battery technology has improved dramatically in the past few years and continues to do so. Motorcycles will be one of the bright beneficiaries of this since they are becoming lighter with longer life.

I was listening to a radio talk show the other day and the discussion subject was the GM Volt and the problems associated with that vehicle. A caller who identified himself as knowledgeable in transportation technologies and methods stated an interesting statistic. He said that it takes a certain amount of electricity to refine a gallon of gasoline. That same electricity, when applied to efficient electric vehicles can result in more than 60 miles of transport vs. maybe 40 mpg in a tiny compact car. That sounds to me like a net plus when it comes to energy useage for people transportation.

Dan

 

[dpreach007]

Well - I for one and all for it.  One way I made my pitch to my wife to start riding was the Gas mileage I would get.  Of course that was when we lived in the midwest and got better mpg BUT it was a big seller for her as she is an environmentalist.  She has ridden with me often and says if we ever move outside of the Metro NYC area, she may take it up but NOT until then.

I could see metropolitan areas such as this one being a big hit, especially in the 5 Boroughs.  I too would like to go ride one and see how it handles, power distribution etc.

 

[longhaul747]

I had my first look at these Zero electric bikes yesterday at a dealer who started carrying them.  Although its not my thing as I prefer in internal combustion engine between my legs I thought the fit and finish was really good and they were not terribly expensive.  Especially as you factor in that you will never have to buy gasoline or lots of "getting more expensive" engine oil.  Really other then changing the battery witch supposed to last a long time and brakes and tires these things need very little maintenance ever.  Something that is also greatly increasing in price.  I also feel they are best suited for the urban commuting environment and not any sort of real touring.  However if they actually deliver on the 115 mile advertised range you can still have some fun with it.  I have owned several motorcycles over the years that would only get 115 miles out of a tank of gas.  Of coarse gas stations are plenty and it only takes a few minutes to top off the tank whereas an electric bike would likely need at least a few hours to adequately charge up.

Overall all though I thought they were pretty cool.  The reality is as the EPA cracks down more and more and fuel cost continue to rise its what we will all be riding in another 20 years.  I think I would feel better if the major brands were backing it though instead of some home made garage brand.  Zero is a little more then that now but I think they actually started in someones garage.  Not that anything is wrong with that but they could easily go away as fast as they came.  I suspect the big brands will be introducing electric models in the next few years.

Again not my thing just yet but if I had one I would probably really warm up to it.  My commute is only 10 miles each way so I can make it work out really well.  Another minor concern is the safety aspect of a electric motorcycles.  I don't fully buy into the "Loud Pipes Save Lives" bit but I don't think they hurt in helping get noticed out there.  I would imagine an electric motorcycle makes little if any noise.  So a person riding one would be even more invisible out there.     

 

[2linby]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid.

Well of course it is! Willy, it was a joke......... I cannot imagine a service like this. Can you imagine the HazMat issues with handling and dispensing battery acid on a daily basis!  I mean whats next nuclear reactor bikes? (another joke)

 

[slybonesjesse]

Oh come on. Nuclear reactor bikes is the only way to go. Wont have to worry about range problems. And wont have to worry about how big the alternator is. Will be able to add heated gear and lights and accessories like crazy. And still wont run out of power for a long time.

 

[smithr]

$3k for a replacement or spare battery and charger.  OUCH but not unexpected.

 

[willyp]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid.

Well of course it is! Willy, it was a joke......... I cannot imagine a service like this. Can you imagine the HazMat issues with handling and dispensing battery acid on a daily basis!  I mean whats next nuclear reactor bikes? (another joke)

Ah! Humor, I heard of that stuff!

Seriously though, gasoline is pretty dangerous stuff too and yet we have self serve stations that anyone can go to with no prior training or certification. At least the battery fluid is not flammable. I would think in this day something like this could be designed with a standardized, zero spill coupling. Maybe co-axial and the machine would automatically pump out and pump in, locking the coupling so it couldn't be removed before the machine was done.

And you may have been joking about ethanol, but I wonder how long it would be before someone came up with a cheaper battery fluid... for us to hate.

 

[ManWorkingHere]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid.

Well of course it is! Willy, it was a joke......... I cannot imagine a service like this. Can you imagine the HazMat issues with handling and dispensing battery acid on a daily basis!  I mean whats next nuclear reactor bikes? (another joke)

Ah! Humor, I heard of that stuff!

So we all need a Flux Capacitor ?  But then we are limited to 88mph!

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Yeah but you'll need 1.21 gigawatts of power to operate the Flux Capacitor. I guess you'll also need a Mr. Fusion, to go with it.  8)

 

[rev ryder]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid.

Well of course it is! Willy, it was a joke......... I cannot imagine a service like this. Can you imagine the HazMat issues with handling and dispensing battery acid on a daily basis!  I mean whats next nuclear reactor bikes? (another joke)

And the way a battery works is not with "charged" fluid (electrolyte).  I mean that the electricity is not exactly "IN" the electrolyte(though this is the source of sulfur), so fresh electrolyte will not make a discharged battery charged in a usable way.  Motorcycle batteries are simply storage devices and do not "make" electricity. When charged and given a completed circuit the chemical reaction between the electrolyte and the lead create a coating on the plates of lead sulfate.  This coating becomes thicker and more copletely covers the plates as the battery reaches a state of discharge.  Once the battery reaches about 10 volts, the plates are saturated and charging MUST take place to restore function.  In other words, if you just put in new acid, it still wouldn't have any more voltage... it would still be nearly as dead.  PROMPT charging converts the lead sulphate back into lead and acid.  A delayed charge may allow the lead sulfate to cure or crystalize which renders the battery unchargeable.  All that just means I cannot see how new "fluid" could work.  Maybe in some other form of battery, but not a conventional lead/acid battery.

 

[smithr]

I so would love to be the first on my block to drive the Zero DS to work every day.  I think it would do a great job on my 9 mike commute and having to transverse paved and off road conditions that I deal with every day.  $12k is not horrible but would take me years to make that back.  Still would not be able to ditch the car or the Concours.

 

[willyp]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid.

Well of course it is! Willy, it was a joke......... I cannot imagine a service like this. Can you imagine the HazMat issues with handling and dispensing battery acid on a daily basis!  I mean whats next nuclear reactor bikes? (another joke)

And the way a battery works is not with "charged" fluid (electrolyte).  I mean that the electricity is not exactly "IN" the electrolyte(though this is the source of sulfur), so fresh electrolyte will not make a discharged battery charged in a usable way.  Motorcycle batteries are simply storage devices and do not "make" electricity. When charged and given a completed circuit the chemical reaction between the electrolyte and the lead create a coating on the plates of lead sulfate.  This coating becomes thicker and more copletely covers the plates as the battery reaches a state of discharge.  Once the battery reaches about 10 volts, the plates are saturated and charging MUST take place to restore function.  In other words, if you just put in new acid, it still wouldn't have any more voltage... it would still be nearly as dead.  PROMPT charging converts the lead sulphate back into lead and acid.  A delayed charge may allow the lead sulfate to cure or crystalize which renders the battery unchargeable.  All that just means I cannot see how new "fluid" could work.  Maybe in some other form of battery, but not a conventional lead/acid battery.

There is a project underway that is researching a liquid battery. That is, changing discharged liquid for charged liquid renders the battery charged. My understanding was that there is a working prototype, that was a year or so ago I haven't followed the topic since. I don't know how it works other than what I just said, obviously what they describe as 'battery fluid' is more than just battery acid or electrolyte. Or maybe the battery works completely different. Perhaps what is electrolyte in a conventional battery is solid in the liquid battery, and the plates are liquid. I don't know!!!

 

[rev ryder]

I don't know why it would have ethanol, I guess basically it's battery acid.

Well of course it is! Willy, it was a joke......... I cannot imagine a service like this. Can you imagine the HazMat issues with handling and dispensing battery acid on a daily basis!  I mean whats next nuclear reactor bikes? (another joke)

And the way a battery works is not with "charged" fluid (electrolyte).  I mean that the electricity is not exactly "IN" the electrolyte(though this is the source of sulfur), so fresh electrolyte will not make a discharged battery charged in a usable way.  Motorcycle batteries are simply storage devices and do not "make" electricity. When charged and given a completed circuit the chemical reaction between the electrolyte and the lead create a coating on the plates of lead sulfate.  This coating becomes thicker and more copletely covers the plates as the battery reaches a state of discharge.  Once the battery reaches about 10 volts, the plates are saturated and charging MUST take place to restore function.  In other words, if you just put in new acid, it still wouldn't have any more voltage... it would still be nearly as dead.  PROMPT charging converts the lead sulphate back into lead and acid.  A delayed charge may allow the lead sulfate to cure or crystalize which renders the battery unchargeable.  All that just means I cannot see how new "fluid" could work.  Maybe in some other form of battery, but not a conventional lead/acid battery.

There is a project underway that is researching a liquid battery. That is, changing discharged liquid for charged liquid renders the battery charged. My understanding was that there is a working prototype, that was a year or so ago I haven't followed the topic since. I don't know how it works other than what I just said, obviously what they describe as 'battery fluid' is more than just battery acid or electrolyte. Or maybe the battery works completely different. Perhaps what is electrolyte in a conventional battery is solid in the liquid battery, and the plates are liquid. I don't know!!!

Sounds kinda cool.  They are coming up with more amazing battery stuff all the time.  With what cell phone and compters are doing with various battery matrixes is pretty incredible and hopefully will trickle down to we scooter folks eventually.  Already there are small batteries for bike, but they have a ways to go before they are really lightweight, reliable, powerful, and lasting all at the same time.  Oh, and I forgot to add INEXPENSIVE as a necessary component. LOL 

 

[troidus]

I was browsing around their site a bit and found the Zero XU, which seems to implement a fresh idea in battery power!

The Zero XU is the world’s first street motorcycle that enables owners to essentially charge anywhere by way of an on-board charger, removable power pack and optional stand-alone charger. This allows owners to recharge without the requirement of garage or street-level charging at their homes or apartments. The removable pack also facilitates essentially non-stop usage by enabling individuals, or fleets, to quickly swap power packs. -Emphasis mine

Now THAT is a good idea!  At this point, the thing's only claiming 42 miles of range.  The ones with non-removable batteries claim over 100 miles in range, but I think it's a real step in the right direction.  And at under $8,000 it's not even outrageously overpriced.  One more nice thing - the whole line can take optional side bags and windscreen!

Maybe the real trick is to have the onboard battery and optional standardized exchangeable side-mounted range extender batteries, maybe that go between the saddlebags and the mounts.  On a long run?  Run on the external batteries, swapping off periodically at regular gas stations (right next to the Blue Rhino bottle rack), and save the onboard battery for stretches where battery swaps aren't possible. 

 

[rev ryder]

I was browsing around their site a bit and found the Zero XU, which seems to implement a fresh idea in battery power!

The Zero XU is the world’s first street motorcycle that enables owners to essentially charge anywhere by way of an on-board charger, removable power pack and optional stand-alone charger. This allows owners to recharge without the requirement of garage or street-level charging at their homes or apartments. The removable pack also facilitates essentially non-stop usage by enabling individuals, or fleets, to quickly swap power packs. -Emphasis mine

Now THAT is a good idea!  At this point, the thing's only claiming 42 miles of range.  The ones with non-removable batteries claim over 100 miles in range, but I think it's a real step in the right direction.  And at under $8,000 it's not even outrageously overpriced.  One more nice thing - the whole line can take optional side bags and windscreen!

Maybe the real trick is to have the onboard battery and optional standardized exchangeable side-mounted range extender batteries, maybe that go between the saddlebags and the mounts.  On a long run?  Run on the external batteries, swapping off periodically at regular gas stations (right next to the Blue Rhino bottle rack), and save the onboard battery for stretches where battery swaps aren't possible.

I can see that idea working.