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tilting windshield mounts ... what broke?

SlowOne

Guest
Guest
I have a calsci XL-wide windshield.  Mounted on the madstad brackets.  Living in Seattle, it works great for me in the winter.

During a spirited ride this morning, the windshield tilted back on me.  In the moment, I figured it was just the little knobs coming loose on the madstad brackets - but nothing so easy.

The entire windshield, brackets, and original mount points on the bike now tilt back and forth a fair bit.  The motor still moved the assembly up-and-down (phew). 

Before I start taking things apart to find out what is now broken ... what parts will I likely need to order?

 
I don't know what you'd order other than the complete windshield mechanism.  AFAIK you can't buy parts, only the complete assembly.  I'd be hoping some screws fell out somewhere.  It's a cast assembly and EXPENSIVE!  Partzilla has one for $575. :-\  I've seen others comment on what might happen with an oversized shield.  Here's a couple of pics I took when I fixed my son's bike when he dropped it.  Hope you find something simple.
 

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Yikes!  :-\

I too have a Calsci XL Wide Screen, and think about this issue everytime I run it full up at highway speeds.  :eek:

Curious to see how this turns out.

Please keep us posted.

gr
 
Better to do the mod before it breaks.  It ain't no fun riding home with a collapsed screen I suspect.  :beerchug:  I used a 3/16 screw and cut a 3/16 slot into the guide.

9fa361e11c880ae73d3cd816a0725b4781ef2e15.jpg
 
SlowOne said:
I have a calsci XL-wide windshield.  Mounted on the madstad brackets.

Can't help with what broke, but I've always thought running those giant shields was a bad idea. Using Madstad brackets just compounds the problem, not to mention raising them to full height. Way to much levarge there, they just weren't engineered for the extra stress.

I am a fan of the Madstad brackets, but I have a smaller than stock shield.

Good luck!
 
What breaks is the bottom half of the sliding yoke that travel along the underside of the guide (with the slot cut in it).
 
. I removed mine, cleaned and greased the rails. its not a hard job but Its a shame they dont sell parts for this assembly. It would be a very simple job to replace a broken Y yoke or whatever its called.
 
Freddy said:
What breaks is the bottom half of the sliding yoke...

What material is the yoke made of?  I can see the mold marks in the photo, but clearly I haven't pulled any maintenance on mine yet...

Thanks...
 
strum said:
I don't care for the slot . Theres just not enough material there imho.

Yes there is - that's how come the slot got put there years ago.  :nananana:

Even if the yoke is broken it can be repaired in a similar way.  When tapping the 3/16 hole don't run the tap completely thru.  This allows the thread to be a little tight and obviates the need for a lock nut.
 
Well ... as I expected, everyone was exactly right about what failed.  Thank you!

It was the aluminum Y piece broke at the bottom - right where it goes around the rail to ride up and down.

https://imgur.com/a/NXUMkQ3 is a picture from the (car-passenger) side.  The windshield is fully 'up' in that shot.
https://imgur.com/a/Vg9Oz2G is the side-view of rail that the Y piece is supposed to track.  You can see how it bends out up as the shield goes up.  That is also a thin-ish piece of metal.

It turns out that my bike is under Kawasaki's extended warranty.  Yay, prior owner!  So ... hopefully KPP will replace the piece.

If they won't fix it up, I'll absolutely do the modifications.  Floppy windshields are not fun.

If it gets fixed up, I'm not quite certain if I want to do the suggested modification (adding a small bolt through the Y piece and the rail).  I do certainly want to keep running the bigger windshield though during peak rainy seasons.  So I'm likely to make the change.

In my mind:
Pros:
* There is an existing hole in the aluminum Y piece.  I'm not likely to break that more than it is already.
* Dremeling out the piece of metal for the slide seems not-hard.  It isn't very thick (see cons).
* I can see if there is a way for the Y piece to (mostly) travel on the slide past the slot.  Or maybe try to reinforce the metal slide at the top and bottom? 
Cons:
* The piece of metal that it runs along isn't very thick, and it isn't very wide at the top (or bottom).  If I screw that part up it will be expensive to replace.
* If it breaks again in some other way, a tech will definitely notice the change. 

 
Newbie question here
What is a Madstad Bracket?
I put a tall Cee Bailey windscreen on what I assume is the stock mounting assembly.
Do I have to worry about it breaking the mounts?
 
Q1 - it extends the screen.

Q2 - yes indeed.  But it's not the mounts that break but the sliding yoke.
 
Ok Freddy
What can I do to keep the yoke from breaking?
Anything? I get that thing up in the triple digits all the time.
Thanks in advance!
 
I still say its a shame we cant buy these parts. Like used to we could not get a fuel filter then kaw started selling them.
Somebody with some pull (if there is such a person) please tell ma kaw to start selling parts .
 
I pinged Murphs and he is possibly interested in making a better part for this. He would need a broken one to get measurements off of. I would pay up to $150 for a better part for this. I fixed mine when it broke after I hit a large bump in the road a few days ago. I took a short piece of steel, drilled a hole in it, cut some plastic to the same size and also drilled a hole, then drilled a hole in the arm. I bolted this together with a nylon lock nut, and it works perfectly. Lubed up the rail and put it back together. I may get industrious this winter and pull it apart to do the slot modification.
However, I would like to see the original post on this if someone has it.
Also, there was another post I saw a year or so ago that replaced the rail piece somehow with a flat one (the rail has a curve to it. This mod was shown in a video, but I cannot find it again.
 
You mean like this? 100k and going strong. No shake with the largest of a barndoor of a windshield.
The picture is for informational purposes only, and not to be reverse engineered for commercial20200926_114517[2305843009216553651].jpg purposes
 
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You mean like this? 100k and going strong. No shake with the largest of a barndoor of a windshield.
The one on the bike is a little heavier and has no flex. I made the other lighter version for less weight but it does flex a little. It'll never break though. And who cares about 6 ounces on a 700 lb bike.

I'd definitely buy something like this, were it to be made available for consumption!

You engineering types are awesome.. 🤓 !
 
I'd definitely buy something like this, were it to be made available for consumption!

You engineering types are awesome.. 🤓 !


I was just thinking about the modification as I was reading the thread and then....magically David shows up and posts his pics. I too, am in awe of guys who can fab up stuff. Beautiful
 
Laker9142 must have a mill.
Much simpler design without the need for welding. but exactly what I had in mind.
Question. The tab where it rides the rail front and back. Do you have some sort of plastic for it to ride on, or is it metal on metal for sliding?
I can work with Aluminum just as well as steel (I just don't weld it), and have some anodized stock I can cut up to make the pieces. Just have to switch the bandsaw blade to the metal cutting one. The designs above both look good and robust, and there is plenty of room behind the cover to do this, as he proved. So I will likely shamelessly copy this. Perhaps send some pics to Murphs and see if he would fab something up commercially for us.
This may become a winter project for me. I already fixed my broken bracket, but I like the looks of this design for long term reliability.
 
Thanks for the friendly words Tom. It was good to see you at the spider. Also good to meet Irene and Jorge. Also many thanks to Gary and all who put the spider on. It was awesome.

As far as the windshield bracket goes I would make a batch if I could get interest from 5 COG members.

Beware of pirates!
 
Freddy
I hate to be a pain, but can you describe in your mod, exactly what I'm trying to do?
I looked at your photo and can't figure it out.
If I take it apart will it become apparent what to do?
Thanks in advance
Nick
2014 C-14
 
I used a 4mm cutting disc on a small angle grinder to cut the slot into the steel guide then a thin flat file is clean it up to allow a 3/16" bolt to slide freely for the length of it. I then centre-punched that rib on the bracket where you see the (rusty) screw showing and drilled and tapped a 3/16" thread - I tapped it from the underside and did not run the tap completely thru. This was to prevent the bolt from being somewhat loose and perhaps vibrate out, meaning that as the screw went in from the underside it got snug the last couple of turns after I had cut it to length to ensure the head was not compressing the yoke that retains the plastic slide, but just touching the underside so that any wind pressure on the yoke would be taken by the head of the bolt and transferred to the upper side where that rib is with the bolt showing, which is not prone to break.
 
Thanks for the friendly words Tom. It was good to see you at the spider. Also good to meet Irene and Jorge. Also many thanks to Gary and all who put the spider on. It was awesome.

As far as the windshield bracket goes I would make a batch if I could get interest from 5 COG members.

Beware of pirates!

Interesting. Looks like there is a growing body of folk who are getting interested. Not sure how hard it is to get in there to change it out but my C Bailey would probably be a lot safer with something like that in place. As hard as you run with that Aeroflow I have no doubt it is going to stand up to stress and time.
 
Its very easy to get in there and change it out. Its a direct replacement with no modifications required. Id sell them for $125 shipped if I can get 5 Cog members to show interest. Non cog would require a small deposit.
 
put me down for one. I will change it over this winter. My C Bailey would appreciate it. I'll save you the shipping and stop over to pick it up.
 
Hey has the C14 windshield bracket gone anywhere? Laker9142 was looking for 5 members........... back in 2020... yea bracket broke working on repair.
 
Hey has the C14 windshield bracket gone anywhere? Laker9142 was looking for 5 members........... back in 2020... yea bracket broke working on repair.
Are you referring to the plastic exterior to the windshield pieces or the structural frame itself?
 
I made a "light weight"unit that's just laying around here someplace. Somebody saw the pictures of the one I'm running and said it looked heavy. The light weight one is a little flexible, but it will never bend or break. I doubt you even notice any flex. If you want it let me know.
 
I made a "light weight"unit that's just laying around here someplace. Somebody saw the pictures of the one I'm running and said it looked heavy. The light weight one is a little flexible, but it will never bend or break. I doubt you even notice any flex. If you want it let me know.

I'd be very interested in one too. I run the CalSci XL and don't want it to snap. email is sendthistodavid@gmail.com
 
Goatmar reports good fit and function. I asked him about any shaking or bouncing using the light weight version, and he says the whole dash shakes when hitting a bump. I assume that means normal conditions.

Ill make 3 or 4 brackets and have them done next week sometime. Ill email the 2 posters above. PM or provide email if interested.
 

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Goatmar reports good fit and function. I asked him about any shaking or bouncing using the light weight version, and he says the whole dash shakes when hitting a bump. I assume that means normal conditions.

Ill make 3 or 4 brackets and have them done next week sometime. Ill email the 2 posters above. PM or provide email if interested.
When you have time I would like one of these brackets as well.

Thank You
 
Goatmar reports good fit and function. I asked him about any shaking or bouncing using the light weight version, and he says the whole dash shakes when hitting a bump. I assume that means normal conditions.

Ill make 3 or 4 brackets and have them done next week sometime. Ill email the 2 posters above. PM or provide email if interested.
Nice.

Heck with postage, If you get them done, I will stop over and pick it up. Maybe even lunch at Sam and Ethels...if we can move the "new folk" through the diner that are visiting our sleepy little town and making it a new "place to be" for antiquarians
 
After thinking about what goatmar said about the whole dash shaking when hitting bumps. I had him check the 2 bolts that hold the whole front assembly on to the frame. One bolt is completely missing, and the other is missing the nut. This was/is a known problem for early C14s.

The part number changed in 2014 for the loose and missing bolt. I personally had to tighten both of those bolts and apply Loctite. Many others have reported the same. Also, many had missing bolts and nuts. Haven't heard much about it lately until goatmars issue.
 

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I'm collecting materials and hardware and have started working on them. hope to have them ready to ship by Friday. I'll let you know.
Also beefed up the weak link of the "lightweight version".
 
I was following this thread as my Madstad brackets were in route.
I didn't want to slot the thin sheet metal, but I think that is a good fix.
Looking at the OP pics, the yoke breaks in the thin radius area.
I drilled a clearance hole for a 2-56 through the top of the cast part and plastic insert.

Then I drilled and tapped a 2-56 hole into the bottom and put a screw in it to prevent the wind shield from flexing the area of the cast part that tends to break.
I preloaded the yoke with .004 tension from unloaded by tightening the screw(pic looks like .005 due to angle of photo). The screw takes away load from the cast part, but doesn't bind the plastic from sliding up and down on the sheet metal.
So far so good up to 100mph(on a closed course of course lol).
Question to the engineers, did I help with the problem or engineer a new failure point.?
 

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did I help with the problem or engineer a new failure point.?
Only time will tell. The soft hardware store 2-56 screw has a working strength of less than a hundred pounds. It's good that you took some measurements. Measure it again from time to time to see if you're getting any stretch.
 
Only time will tell. The soft hardware store 2-56 screw has a working strength of less than a hundred pounds. It's good that you took some measurements. Measure it again from time to time to see if you're getting any stretch.
I used a soft screw intentionally(60000psi), I wanted it to give(stretch or break) before the tapped hole in the cast aluminum yoke. I didn't "stretch" the screw by .004, I closed the yoke up by .004. I wanted to transfer some load from the backside of the yoke to the front. I calculated about 200 lbs breaking strength. Screw is .064 minor diameter min(from Machinery's Hanbook), so 3.141x0.032 squared=.0032sq inches x 60000=192lbs. I could install a threaded insert in the back of the yoke, and switch to a higher tensile screw.
 
I'm not trying to argue, just saying how I arrived at 100pounds.

First, you're using ultimate tensile strength of 60k. This is a very generous number and not the one you should be based on.

My assumption is that the steel is Chinese cheese similar to some that kawasaki uses. So ill give it 50k tensile. Tensile strength is where it breaks. Yield strength is where it stretches and never returns to original. Ill give it 40k yield.

Working strength is where a bolt (or really anything) can work and live indefinitely. General rule of thumb is 75% of yield.

40k x .75 is 30k.
.003 x 30k is 90lbs.

You errored on the high side, I'm probably a little low.
 
I wasn't trying to argue either, no offense taken.
I have good alloy steel fasteners available, I just figured the softer one would fail before stripping the yoke.
Thanks for the info!
 
I got these brackets done. I sent everybody a pm on here. PMs are good to keep track of, I lose emails for some reason. 4 are spoken for. I'll sell 1 more and keep one for if someone has an emergency. $160 shipped USPS. They turned out good and sturdy. Probably about the same weight as the stocker. Just guessing.
 

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Hello Laker! I started following your awesome work when my windscreen mounting bracket broke and it seems you have the thing I need. Can I buy the other mount you created? My 14 is my work transport and it sure stinks having a broken mount!

My email is zellerized@gmail.com. Please let me know! Thanks!

I'll become a member today.
 
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I got some positive feedback from goatmar this morning. It took him a while to fix the underlying issue. I think he has something called a job and a wife and a life that slowed him down. he had to fix the 2 bolts that hold the front end on that were missing. Kind of a tight spot and his bolt holes weren't lining up.
 

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I'm trying to get signed up as an industry vendor. Just waiting on our volunteer staff to make it official. They probably have lives to attend to also. I feel that if people can see this bracket, I can sell a few more, we'll see. Plus, I can make other stuff too.
 
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I'd buy another 1400 just to put your bracket on it, and thats no joke! Maybe I just really like the bike, I don't know..

Its people like you that make this world a better place! Thank you, sir!
 
I just installed the new mount that Dave sent in two days to me!! .. and it fits perfectly.. I actually had to turn the bottom bolts slightly so the flat side of the bolt perfectly hugs the front ferring.. that is how precise the part is!

Works flawlessly and I think it will last long past the bike does. Its also VERY light. The part that rides the rail also has some excellently placed nylon or something that now rides the clean, ungreased rail. No more dirt collecting from grease!
There's absolutely no way this will break at high speed with the screen up!

I also went to the CalSci windscreen shop thats 45 mins from me and picked up the large windscreen.. it looks really nice! I highly recommend CalSci! Mark is a physics guru and if you meet him you will enjoy the talk! I'll leave a separate review of the windscreen.

Dave, thank you! You saved me so much time and money and far surpassed kawasaki in every way! Love to my new brother!
 
Wanted to provide some more feedback. Thanks Dave for the fine, fine craftsmanship. I’ve ridden 4 hours or so with the new bracket and love the change. No movement now and rock solid. I’ve stopped caring about screen position, speed, and wind. I run the CalSci XL being 6’6”. Many thanks and highly recommended. You fabricating any other goodies!?
 
Works flawlessly and I think it will last long past the bike does. Its also VERY light.
Thanks Dave for the fine, fine craftsmanship. I’ve ridden 4 hours or so with the new bracket and love the change. No movement now and rock solid.
Thanks for the kind words. I just made 6 more for anybody interested, one is going to the National for a raffle, so 5 for sale.
 

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What is the latest year this will fit? Also, do we know if the issue of breakage affects all years or when does it stop. I'm asking because l'll be getting a newer 14 at some point and I want to be sure I have one for it. Thanks!
 
They are all the same. I see that they did change part numbers.. at sometime but it retro's back to 08. I can't answer about breakage on later years. Time will tell.
 
I had a nice visit today with Freebird6, (Tom). He lives in Indiana now, but grew up here in the metropolis. So I replaced his windshield bracket on his 2018 while we visited. I did notice that it appears that kawasaki did make the newer brackets stronger, although I don't have an older one to compare with. Regardless, Tom reports that on his 2 hr ride home that the windshield is much more rigid and the annoying rattling noise from the shaking is gone.
 
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