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TPMS Battery

I

IBAJIM

Guest
Guest
About 2 years ago when I replaced the front tire on my 2008 C-14 I decidd to replace the battery in the TPMS even tho it was working fine. I bought three CR2032 batteries off Ebay before that time. I think the old batteries were the original batteries. The front & rear TPMS were both working fine.

About 1 year ago when I replaced the rear tire I did the same with the rear TPMS. Recently I've been seeing a "Rear TPMS Low Battery" message after I first rode the bike, but then it would extinguish and give an accurate rear tire pressure after about 10 minutes or so. I think the TPMS is interrogated every 10 minutes or so by the TPMS/Immobilizer module and not every few seconds. Don't ask me why the problem would clear up after riding the bike for awhile. This repeats every time I restart the bike during the day.

So I removed the rear wheel today and broke down the tire from the bead and removed the TPMS and checked the battery voltage. It was only about 1.4 volts. Don't know why it failed early. What is interesting is that the TPMS sensor would work at all with this low voltage.

I looked up the specs on the CR2032 battery and it looks like the capacity ( about 240mAH ) is measured until the terminal voltage gets down to 2 volts so maybe the TPMS are designed to work on a voltage of 2 volts and maybe even lower even tho the CR2032 is described as a 3 volt battery.

The test current to measure the capacity is only about 0.2 mA and the time to reach 2 volts is less than 1,000 hours. I think the TPMS only works while interrogated because that would be the only way a battery would last several years. And maybe there is a device ( accelerometer ? ) insde the sensors that turns the circuitry on only when the bike is moving.

The third battery I bought before I replaced the front TPMS battery is reading 3.3 volts. But I didn't trust this battery I bought years ago, so I bought another 4 from a different supplier recently and installed one of these today in the rear TPMS. Now to find out how long these last before I start seeing a Low Battery Messages again.

I'm just happy I don't have a newer C-14 with the potted TPMS that you can't replace the batteries.

EDIT : I watched a YoiuTube video last night where a guy replaced the battery in a car TPMS that was potted with what looked like a soft silicone sealer. If the later generation C-14 are potted like this, the batteries should be replacable also. But if an epoxy type potting is used, probably not. But even then it would be worth a try.

Anyone familiar with the potting used in the newer C-14's ?
 
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My experience is that the TPMS Low Battery warning will start to show even tho the battery has 3v. There is an accelerometer of some sort within the sensor. I had one sensor that wouldn't go into 'sleep' mode when stationary, hence it would flatten the battery within weeks.
 
They are also temperature sensitive and will start to give low battery warnings when it's cold outside that go away after they warm up. I've had them start giving me low battery warnings in the winter and then nothing until the following October when they start bitchin' again.
 
These batteries typically last 5 years. If you purchased a battery with Tabs and soldered to the tabs that's a good thing, but if you soldered directly to the body of the battery the intense heat can shorten the life span of the battery.
 
I bought new batteries with tabs already installed. Since I didn't trust the original batteries I bought when I did the front TPMS several years ago, I also installed one of the latest batteries in the front wheel.

Took a ride yesterday and the front & rear TPMS is working great.

Now to see how long the batteries last. I may never know since I think I may put the bike up for sale in the spring. I bought a '15 Triumph Trophy last year. I like the C-14 but I really don't need 2 bikes at my age.
 
BTW : I sent an email to AUTEL asking about their MX series universal TPMS sensors. You can get these for about $30 each.
They can operate on either 315 MHz like on our C-14's or at 433 MHz and come in either rubber or metal stem styles. So if an OEM sensors would fail besides just needing a new battery, this could be an alternative to getting a new sensor installed by the dealer.

So I asked if the MX sensors could replace the LDL sensors that we have on our C-14's. I'm pretty sure they can. If so, a AUTEL programmer ( about $160 ) would be needed to program the new AUTEL MX sensor with the ID of the original LDL C-14 sensor. That would still be cheaper than a visit to the dealer for new sensors.

My Triumph Trophy also uses the LDL sensors but free software ( Tiger Tool ) is available that can be used to enter a new sensor ID into the Trophy ECM or program the new sensor to the old sensor ID so an AUTEL programmer wouldn't be required for the Trophy.

I'll post again after I hear back from AUTEL.
 
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OFF TOPIC

and the other great thing about Triumph is that you can use Tiger Tool to cycle the ABS valves while bleeding the system. It's a significant oversight that Kaw didn't enable this feature even with dealer-only KDS. :mad:

Some Triumph and Kaw bikes even use the very same ABS units (albeit with different programming to suit each model).
 
IBAJIM said:
BTW : I sent an email to AUTEL asking about their MX series universal TPMS sensors. You can get these for about $30 each.
They can operate on either 315 MHz like on our C-14's or at 433 MHz and come in either rubber or metal stem styles. So if an OEM sensors would fail besides just needing a new battery, this could be an alternative to getting a new sensor installed by the dealer.

So I asked if the MX sensors could replace the LDL sensors that we have on our C-14's. I'm pretty sure they can. If so, a AUTEL programmer ( about $160 ) would be needed to program the new AUTEL MX sensor with the ID of the original LDL C-14 sensor. That would still be cheaper than a visit to the dealer for new sensors.

My Triumph Trophy also uses the LDL sensors but free software ( Tiger Tool ) is available that can be used to enter a new sensor ID into the Trophy ECM or program the new sensor to the old sensor ID so an AUTEL programmer wouldn't be required for the Trophy.

I'll post again after I hear back from AUTEL.
Click to expand...
Guys on the other site said to tell you they work 😀
 
Thanks. I'l verify that tomorrow when I call AUTEL tech support. AUTEL responded to my email by asking me to call the 855 tech support number.
 
Called AUTEL today and they couldn't give me any specific advice since they don't support motorcycle applications but the tech did say to program the new MX sensor you have to specify the vehicle it will be used with so the proper frequency and protocol will be programmed.

I went to another Kawasaki Forum and no kidding, this same topic has been covered lately. Thanks to kzz1king for the heads-up.

A Rider on this other Forum said if the AUTEL MX sensor is programmed for use on a " 2004/01-2004/12 Mazda 3 " the AUTEL MX sensors work just fine on the C-14. So this is the key bit of info needed to make the MX sensors work on the C-14.

And he used a AUTEL "Pad" ( Bluetooth device ) and AUTEL software on his computer to program ( clone ) the new sensors instead of using a more expensive AUTEL handheld programmer.

See : Autel USB programming pad https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RGZR2M2

EDIT : I just bought the AUTEL PAD off EBay for $45 new, w/shipping.

More AUTEL Maxi TPMS PAD info : https://www.autel.com/autelcms/TPMS Diagnostic & Service Tool/533.jhtml

If you go to the "specifications" tab at this link, it looks to me like using the PAD you can directly read the old sensors info and the PAD will automatically program the new MX sensor. Of course the old sensor must be working for this to happen. The Rider on the other Forum said he was able to read the new MX sensor with the PAD after it was installed and the tire mounted on the rim, BTW.

I think I'll experiment a bit and buy a PAD and 2 new MX sensors and see if I can clone the sensors on my Triumph Trophy with the wheels installed. It's a 2015 and the sensor ( LDL sensors like on our C-14 ) batteries probably won't be lasting that much longer and I'll then install the new MX sensors at the next tire change. It wouldn't surprise me if the sensors on the C-14 and Trophy use the same data protocol , although a pic of the sensor label on a Trophy in the UK says it operates on 434 Mhz not on 315 MHz as the C-14.
 
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IBAJIM said:
Called AUTEL today and they couldn't give me any specific advice since they don't support motorcycle applications but the tech did say to program the new MX sensor you have to specify the vehicle it will be used with so the proper frequency and protocol will be programmed.

I went to another Kawasaki Forum and no kidding, this same topic has been covered lately. Thanks to kzz1king for the heads-up.

A Rider on this other Forum said if the AUTEL MX sensor is programmed for use on a " 2004/01-2004/12 Mazda 3 " the AUTEL MX sensors work just fine on the C-14. So this is the key bit of info needed to make the MX sensors work on the C-14.

And he used a AUTEL "Pad" ( Bluetooth device ) and AUTEL software on his computer to program ( clone ) the new sensors instead of using a more expensive AUTEL handheld programmer.

See : Autel USB programming pad https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RGZR2M2

EDIT : I just bought the AUTEL PAD off EBay for $45 new, w/shipping.

More AUTEL Maxi TPMS PAD info : https://www.autel.com/autelcms/TPMS Diagnostic & Service Tool/533.jhtml

If you go to the "specifications" tab at this link, it looks to me like using the PAD you can directly read the old sensors info and the PAD will automatically program the new MX sensor. Of course the old sensor must be working for this to happen. The Rider on the other Forum said he was able to read the new MX sensor with the PAD after it was installed and the tire mounted on the rim, BTW.

I think I'll experiment a bit and buy a PAD and 2 new MX sensors and see if I can clone the sensors on my Triumph Trophy with the wheels installed. It's a 2015 and the sensor ( LDL sensors like on our C-14 ) batteries probably won't be lasting that much longer and I'll then install the new MX sensors at the next tire change. It wouldn't surprise me if the sensors on the C-14 and Trophy use the same data protocol , although a pic of the sensor label on a Trophy in the UK says it operates on 434 Mhz not on 315 MHz as the C-14.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have a good handle on this. Great idea to program the sensors or at least get whatever you need off the old before they die. Keep us informed please, thanks.
 
Ive got the programmer and the sensors...havent done a test yet..its pretty straight forward and see no reason its not going to work...I'm aways away from being able to do my tires ( the old cobblers children have no shoes thing), but you got your broke down and the sensors out I can probley fix you up
 
IBAJIM said:
About 2 years ago when I replaced the front tire on my 2008 C-14 I decidd to replace the battery in the TPMS even tho it was working fine. I bought three CR2032 batteries off Ebay before that time. I think the old batteries were the original batteries. The front & rear TPMS were both working fine.

About 1 year ago when I replaced the rear tire I did the same with the rear TPMS. Recently I've been seeing a "Rear TPMS Low Battery" message after I first rode the bike, but then it would extinguish and give an accurate rear tire pressure after about 10 minutes or so. I think the TPMS is interrogated every 10 minutes or so by the TPMS/Immobilizer module and not every few seconds. Don't ask me why the problem would clear up after riding the bike for awhile. This repeats every time I restart the bike during the day.

So I removed the rear wheel today and broke down the tire from the bead and removed the TPMS and checked the battery voltage. It was only about 1.4 volts. Don't know why it failed early. What is interesting is that the TPMS sensor would work at all with this low voltage.

I looked up the specs on the CR2032 battery and it looks like the capacity ( about 240mAH ) is measured until the terminal voltage gets down to 2 volts so maybe the TPMS are designed to work on a voltage of 2 volts and maybe even lower even tho the CR2032 is described as a 3 volt battery.

The test current to measure the capacity is only about 0.2 mA and the time to reach 2 volts is less than 1,000 hours. I think the TPMS only works while interrogated because that would be the only way a battery would last several years. And maybe there is a device ( accelerometer ? ) insde the sensors that turns the circuitry on only when the bike is moving.

The third battery I bought before I replaced the front TPMS battery is reading 3.3 volts. But I didn't trust this battery I bought years ago, so I bought another 4 from a different supplier recently and installed one of these today in the rear TPMS. Now to find out how long these last before I start seeing a Low Battery Messages again.

I'm just happy I don't have a newer C-14 with the potted TPMS that you can't replace the batteries.

EDIT : I watched a YoiuTube video last night where a guy replaced the battery in a car TPMS that was potted with what looked like a soft silicone sealer. If the later generation C-14 are potted like this, the batteries should be replacable also. But if an epoxy type potting is used, probably not. But even then it would be worth a try.

Anyone familiar with the potting used in the newer C-14's ?
Click to expand...
I would suggest not buying batteries (or any other time sensitive items with a shelf life) off Ebay. In my experience they could be seconds or very old. It's kind of like buying flashlight batteries from the Dollar store and wondering why they are dead in 5 minutes. JMO
 
If the battery is dead is it possible for a Kawasaki dealer to read the dead sensor's ID from the ECU or where ever they are stored? It is one of the newer sensors in a 2016 C14.
 
According to the FB thread there is a code written on the sensor that you can use when replacing it with an Autel unit.
 
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