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Valve clearance ramblings

laker9142

Member
Member
I just did my 4th adjustment in 139500 miles. All is well, only one needed adjustment since the last time over 30k ago. That same one was at .007 last time and I was to lazy to fix it.

Also did some testing of the shims just to dispel an old myth on this forum, that you shouldn't grind these shims to a different thickness, because they are supposedly case hardened. I didn't believe it at the time but now sense I wanted to grind one, I thought I should prove that they are thru hardened and not case hard. My best guess is 45 r/c. Plus I think I saw that on an aftermarket site. So I used a center punch and a small ball peen hammer, dropped from the same height each time and my results are as follows.



(803)Aftermarket surface as supplied
(850) Aftermarket shows no case depth on edge. You would see a line if it was there.
(018) Stock Kawasaki Used
(815) Aftermarket after grinding .004 from it.

They all show about a .035-.040 dimple. If anything the stock one is a little softer.

I also wanted to thank 2andblue for posting up about removing the radiator. It made it so much easier, plus I soaked the radiator in industrial simple green for 24 hrs. It looks like new. Plus I got the full 3 quarts into the system this time. usually just get 2 in.
 

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Fascinating.

Always learn something when I read your posts. Not sure I know how to use the info but I learned something. What is the scoop on the radiator removal ? Since you have done this a few times sounds like a better experience with the radiator out.
 
Tom/Spock, the takeaway is that if you know somebody (me) with a surface grinder, you can have your shims ground down instead of buying new ones. In my own circumstance, I simply grind it in 5 minutes instead of waiting 4 or 5 days.

Radiator is so simple to remove, I don't why I didn't do it before. Especially if you're flushing the system while running the valves. Its 2 more bolts and a couple hose clamps. It wiggles right out and completely opens up the valve area.
 
Interesting test...but I'm not sure it's meaningful to establish surface hardness for wear resistance. Your test penatration is massive and and it could simply be far too much to detect differences in surface hardness. You may just be measuring the main bulk material hardness.
 
Thanks for the comments, I was hoping somebody would chime in on the finer details of what my pictures are about. You're saying the exact same thing the old guy was saying 5-7 years ago.

Ill tell you what I know to be true. This little shim can be;
1) through hardened (which it is)
2) carburized and hardened (case depth so deep it would be effectively through hardened at 60 r/c)
3) Nitrided to a case depth of .010-.015. Even my "massive" test method would not be too much, you would see a difference in dimple size.
4) Coated with various surface coatings .0001/.0002 thick. (Not really applicable) these are more for cutting and forming tools on an already hardened steel part.

So unless you can tell me of a case hardening method, and it's case depth, and how to detect it, I'll stay with my assertion of no case hardening of these shims. If you can tell me please do! I always like to learn.

I just reread your initial statement about wear resistance. These shims don't need much in the way of surface wear resistance. They just need to resist a constant pounding without cracking. There is no spinning, sliding or rubbing going on
 
I must be missing something...are you saying the cam lobe doesn't slide across the surface of the shim?
 
Right you are sir! I stand corrected. So that would eliminate the concern about surface wear (maybe). As I guess you know, though, the shop manual says not to grind the shims for whatever reason. There have been reports on other forums of grenaded motors from grinding shims, but those were likely over-bucket shims (but I am not sure of that).
 
It does say that..but it might just be a boilerplate warning. Or it could be that the shims are nitrided (or whatever) after they are machined. It could also be they worried about surface parallelism if you don't have a surface grinder (dremel like you say). Or excessively heating the material during the grind if you don't do it correctly. Hard to say the reasons. You eliminated most my concerns with you noting it's an underbucket shim...but yeah, I still wouldn't do it personally, but I understand your logic.
 
I've done two 15k adjustments so far - one to each of mine. First time I ordered an extra shim in the smallest size the job called for, and it was used with bike #2. This was repeated when I had to order them for the second bike. I'll probably get a few of that size and a couple of the next smaller to have on-hand for bike #1's next valve adjustment in 8k more miles.

FWIW, I try to keep a stash of spare stuff on-hand for most of the routine maintenance tasks - wheel/tire R&R, valve adjustment, brake system service, fork rebuild, filter changes, etc. This is done with C14s and other models alike.
 
Just saw this. Good info. Agree that their thru hardened.
Was also concerned about wear, thought the rocker was wearing on it, but now understand that nothing is wearing against the shim.

It's been a lot of years since I did any surface grinding.
My only concern is initial accuracy. (Can you accurately remove only the first 0.001 or 0.002"??
ie; With your equipment, I know it's EZ to remove material accurately.
But (from the little I recall) the initial touch/grind isn't as accurate as you're not quite sure the object is flat and exactly when you touched it.

Ride safe, Ted
 
While my grinder isn't new, or a super precision machine to begin with, on a small piece like a shim its good enough to hold flat and parallel to less than .0001. I can remove the ink of a big permanent magic marker before touching the steel shim. that ink is about .0002 for a good heavy mark.

I made the mistake of buying a shim kit many years ago and now have dozens of shims I can grind down, many are .010-.030 to thick to begin with.

The last new surface grinder I was involved in purchasing was around the year 2000. It was a Parker Majestic and cost $40,000. They're typically good for flatness of .000050 (fifty millionths). We ordered this one special; it was certified for .000011(eleven millionths) over the entire 6 x 18 inch chuck. We made a lot of stuff for the fiber optics industry and, back then, parts for computer hard drive tooling.
 
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I also wanted to thank 2andblue for posting up about removing the radiator. It made it so much easier, plus I soaked the radiator in industrial simple green for 24 hrs. It looks like new. Plus I got the full 3 quarts into the system this time. usually just get 2 in.

Simple Green is very hard on aluminum. I'd advise against using it on your radiator or any other aluminum components. If you insist on using it, you should at least dilute it.
 
I did some research and Simple Green is by far the safest on aluminum. I did it per the instructions and it came out good.
I'd advise against using it on your radiator or any other aluminum components.
Do you have firsthand experience that says otherwise? I'm not being defensive, just want to know.

I did the solution of 3 to 1 per the instructions. But I went off track a little and bought a large plastic storage tub to soak the radiator in. Got the inside and outside looking good. I did NOT run it through the motor. Probably could have, but I didn't. I soaked it for 24 hrs. I guess we'll have to wait and see if its hurt, but I doubt it.
 

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Simple Green has been banned by nearly every air force in the world for use on aircraft after it was found to contribute to stress cracking and hydrogen embrittlement on aircraft. I've personally used full strength Simple Green to remove paint.

I believe Simple Green now makes a new formula specific for aluminum but I haven't used it. You can do what you like, but personally I certainly wouldn't use the old original (Green) formula stuff on anything aluminum.
 
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