SP/GF6 came out. What's the best oil for the concours now?
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What's the best motor oil
- Thread starter Douglasjre
- Start date
The one YOU like...
Not contributing to the start of a new oil thread… lol
However, I’ve used Valvoline 10W40 Synthetic for years without a problem.
I change oils (engine / diff) every 5,500 - 6,000 miles.
I am going to try Mobil 1 10W40 Synthetic next change, good sale, figured I would give it a shot.
Am I buying an over-engineered oil for this machine, maybe. I only use motorcycle oils . Am I wasting money - maybe. Some here go hundreds (K) miles on Diesel engine oils and never had an engine problem.
As one respondent said - whichever pop brand you like…. Meet the oil certification needed and likely any one would work fine - very high quality products these days.
I do run our machine hard with a higher than average RPM and think the synthetics are my choice for the hard use.
Last comment - I have used Valvoline non-synthetic 10W40 and found on my old KZ750 and C-10 that the shifting gets a little bound-up and rough to actuate after about 2,500 miles of mixed riding. I switched to synthetics and this is gone. I switched back once or twice and yes back the same.. So I switched to synthetics permanently and this C-14 machine now has seen nothing but synthetics.
Wayne, Carol & Blue
However, I’ve used Valvoline 10W40 Synthetic for years without a problem.
I change oils (engine / diff) every 5,500 - 6,000 miles.
I am going to try Mobil 1 10W40 Synthetic next change, good sale, figured I would give it a shot.
Am I buying an over-engineered oil for this machine, maybe. I only use motorcycle oils . Am I wasting money - maybe. Some here go hundreds (K) miles on Diesel engine oils and never had an engine problem.
As one respondent said - whichever pop brand you like…. Meet the oil certification needed and likely any one would work fine - very high quality products these days.
I do run our machine hard with a higher than average RPM and think the synthetics are my choice for the hard use.
Last comment - I have used Valvoline non-synthetic 10W40 and found on my old KZ750 and C-10 that the shifting gets a little bound-up and rough to actuate after about 2,500 miles of mixed riding. I switched to synthetics and this is gone. I switched back once or twice and yes back the same.. So I switched to synthetics permanently and this C-14 machine now has seen nothing but synthetics.
Wayne, Carol & Blue
The prior owner of my 09 C-14 (Miss Tourmaline) used Mobil One 4RT racing synthetic 10w40 and I continued with the change I completed Saturday. I use the K&N KN-303 filter based on some videos I have seen. Almost need monthly payments to pay for an oil change now…but it is worth it to keep her running strong.
I also try to only use real gas (alcohol free) with a splash of octane booster. Typical pump gas ruined the fuel system of the bike requiring the fuel pump replacement, tank clean and seal, and new rubber lines before the bike was sold to me. Keep in mind that she only had 9100 miles on the odometer. My Real Gas phone app is great for locating stations that sell it. Also noticed almost 2 mpg increase on long trips when not using the garbage fuel.
I also try to only use real gas (alcohol free) with a splash of octane booster. Typical pump gas ruined the fuel system of the bike requiring the fuel pump replacement, tank clean and seal, and new rubber lines before the bike was sold to me. Keep in mind that she only had 9100 miles on the odometer. My Real Gas phone app is great for locating stations that sell it. Also noticed almost 2 mpg increase on long trips when not using the garbage fuel.
I've run Amsoil in both of mine since acquiring them and testing a few other oils; synthetic, semi and pure dino alike. They seem to do well with it.
I highly suggest you use Shell Rotella T6 synthetic.
(Your purchase will help fund my retirement from Shell).
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Note; I retired from Shell and your helping fund my pension.
(Your purchase will help fund my retirement from Shell).
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Note; I retired from Shell and your helping fund my pension.
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SP/GF-6A is supposed to meet 7 standards. Critical are: higher temperatures, resist sheer, less calcium detergent to stop LSPI. It has less zinc And yet miraculously preserve the timing chain much better. The chain is THE known Achilles heel on the concours which has the obvious need for an APE. You'll always need the APE but will this prevent premature chain degradation at high rpm?
Exactly zero,
Timing chains on all-year ZX14 stretch, especially with high valve spring pressure and high RPM the chain was under-spec and cheaply made, and on the ZX platform they kink or break plates, and if you are lucky enough to escape catastrophic failure they just stretch and make noise and the Hydro adjuster cant keep it tight.
The Concours tend to last much much longer just look at the 1000s of civilian Concours 14 that haven't had a valve adjustment since 2008 along with that sometimes being revved to their maximum rpm! The weight of the VVT really plays no role in its failure if it did you would see failure.
In fact, I have never seen a Concours 14 lose a chain but I guess it could happen. I did have a 2012 Enforcer with 30 grand on the clock that was stretched but that bike was a take-down bike used by Myrtle Beach police during bike weeks and beat on daily
APE does not make a replacement chain they manufacture adjustable gears and manual cam chain adjusters, in the drag racing world Cam chains are changed Monthly with OEM In fact there is only one company SAE Outlaw that puts together a Conversion kit for the 2011 and newer 14R and its a morse style chain kit with sprockets similar to what you find in the old 70 front wheel drive Eldorado TH425 or some 4X4 transfer cases but it is heavy and not really proven itself
I've been in the club over 20 years.
In that time, I know of NO engine failures that were attributed to oil.
The oil tread happens over and over and over.
I know folks will continue to ask. That's not an issue.
But, all these deep oil discussions are "overkill".
Current Oils are far superior to what used to be on the market.
Even plain old Dyno oil works fine.
I agree that some shifts better than others, but you don't have to spend $30-$40 a quart.
Buy some good oil and go.
"Let the flame's begin"
Ride safe, Ted
In that time, I know of NO engine failures that were attributed to oil.
The oil tread happens over and over and over.
I know folks will continue to ask. That's not an issue.
But, all these deep oil discussions are "overkill".
Current Oils are far superior to what used to be on the market.
Even plain old Dyno oil works fine.
I agree that some shifts better than others, but you don't have to spend $30-$40 a quart.
Buy some good oil and go.
"Let the flame's begin"
Ride safe, Ted
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The (secret) oil that I use makes my C14 go faster that Ted's C14.
I'm really gonna regret this because Ted will never let me live it down, but I agree with him on both accounts. T6 has been in my C14 for the last 240,000 miles & it shifts smooth as butter, purrs like a kitten.
That’s the secret just leave the oil in there for 240,000 miles! 
though - Pretty darn good testimony Cliff.
So I've been using T6 in my C14 for a long time...but that said, has anyone noticed that the latest variants have lost the API "S" spec? Supposedly that is because of phosphorus content over the 0.08 limit for the latest S spec...which, in theory, could be bad for catalytic converters. This is odd because it still carries JASO MA2 spec, which is obviously for "spark" engines. Further my understanding is that MA2 (as opposed to the earlier MA spec) was developed specifically to by catalyst-friendly. Pretty odd if you ask me (but I will continue to use it in any case).
Never a dull moment here!One in every crowd!
So for all the endless banter regarding oils, I'm kinda surprised nobody has voiced an opinion on Rotella losing the API Sx spec. Has there been a formulation change? Or is it just because it can't meet the latest SN? If it's the second, why don't they still claim compliance with earlier specs?
The known Achilles heel? Maybe the tensioner rattles but the chain itself?
Bad tensioner lets chain enter a harmonic that kills it early. APE prevents it. Zx14 crowd-wisdom: Ape allows for engine use in the power-band without chain degradation.
Back on track here. Where do we stand on using the new SP/GF-6a in mcy use? Are they including JASO-MA in this multi-spec?
Ted, this is a new oil issue. New specs came out and it's not simple. You can't just grab a bottle of oil off the shelf because it's your fav. If it don't say JASO-MA you're going to destroy your wet clutch.
My question relates to the new ILSAC spec. The SP spec has such extreme friction modifiers for the chain wear guideline that I don't imagine it getting a JASO-MA cert. Anybody able to confirm?
To answer my own Q, I don't see how an SP oil could have a JASO-MA cert. Too many modifiers like moly in there.
For those of you who don't know..... Read the attached so you don't ruin the clutch:
www.oilspecifications.org
For those of you who don't know..... Read the attached so you don't ruin the clutch:
JASO MA and JASO MB classifications - oilspecifications.org
I have high miles and use liqui moly 10/40!german oil .
That's too vague. Not enough information. We're talking about certifications and ingredients.
I'd be willing to bet that given the way the engine has been designed and built in the C-14 that just about any oil you use now, with the exception of a few you should not use because of clutch slipping which are well known here, with a regular regimen of replacement will be more than enough for any concerns pertaining to chain failure as I've not really heard of or read much on failing chains. Now, I'm fairly new to the C-14 game, and I'm not seeing an overabundance of problems pertaining to the possibility of improper oil selection. The fact that someone regularly changes their oil will, using just about anything out there, with a few exceptions, in my humble opinion which all of you are certainly entitled to, overcome any problems that may occur concerning chain failure.
I know what I've just written will upset a few, maybe inflame passions not known before, prompting strongly worded responses, possibly even call for my ouster from this regal group over posting misinformation, while under their breath calling me names that they think might offend what they perceive as delicate proclivities on my part and calling into question my parents marital status at the time of my birth.
Choose an oil, if you can choose a bike oil, change it regularly, ride your bike.
I know what I've just written will upset a few, maybe inflame passions not known before, prompting strongly worded responses, possibly even call for my ouster from this regal group over posting misinformation, while under their breath calling me names that they think might offend what they perceive as delicate proclivities on my part and calling into question my parents marital status at the time of my birth.
Choose an oil, if you can choose a bike oil, change it regularly, ride your bike.
So this happened sometime in 2018 when some Shell Rotella products were previously API Sx rated to claim gasoline engine spec for HDDEO through the waiver process covering the use of high phosphorus content oil on dual-rated engines. However, upon the introduction of the newer generation API CK-4 & FA-4, this waiver was eliminated and stricter upper limits for phosphorus content took effect for the API Sx ratings (API SN, for example, requires Phosphorus content <800ppm). Rotella oils well exceed the value needed for the API Sx spec and so it had to be stripped off from the labels and TDS. Hope this helps!
I've bought more Rotella oil than anything else for my business equipment, some motors with over 20,000 hours and the motors are still fine.
But my girl is getting her valves checked, and Red Line is going in, stupidly expensive.
It's all about the shift....
What kind of toothpaste do you use?
www.redlineoil.com
But my girl is getting her valves checked, and Red Line is going in, stupidly expensive.
It's all about the shift....
What kind of toothpaste do you use?
20W50 Motorcycle Oil
Designed for the latest Big-Twin motorcycle engines that specify 20W50 motor oil, including Milwaukee-Eight, Evolution, Twin Cam, and aftermarket engines of similar design
They did SN+ before SP. Direct injection engines need it. I get it. But we don't and I haven't yet walked the aisles to see if the new SP oils have an MA cert. Guessing not, so I will just stay w rotella w the MA rating for now
I use either Castrol Power 1 or Mobil 1 racing 4t (which ever is cheaper). I do change my oil every 3-5K because the shifting feel seems to diminish a bit after 3-4K. I agree with others you could use just about anything in the beast and be fine for 100K+. In fact, my 2009 only has 35K on the clock and the rate of miles per year won't increase all that much until I retire and travel more. I don't commute with the bike so it's 35K of pure fun.
Antiwear additives package along with Zinc. Most have been pulled from Automotive oil and replaced with friction modifiers. Unfortunately it does not work out well for high performance oils or extreme pressure Diesel. Just about all Diesel oil is Exempt and that is why they are losing the Gas classifications but remains popular among true gear heads!
I've been using Rotella T7. My teeth look fresh and shiny at the beginning of the day, but for some reason, they turn a dark brown by evening.
Chris
As ram rod over millions worth of equipment, a phrase I heard more than once was...'"it didn't run long enough to hurt it".
Folks that build and sell things generally publish how and what with they want it maintained with it, I really dont think they are going to prescribe things that bring about premature failure and undo cost to owners...its the age of the internet..word gets around pretty quick. You want to be a test pilot, thats great stuff....and mo power to ya...
Murph
.'"it didn't run long enough to hurt it".
That's when he forgot to put the oil in it
, about 15 years ago, an employee called and asked If I could pick him up at exit 107
I found out he just changed the oil in his Toyota pickup and didn't tighten the oil filter.
He got almost 10 miles till she quit.
That's when he forgot to put the oil in it
, about 15 years ago, an employee called and asked If I could pick him up at exit 107
I found out he just changed the oil in his Toyota pickup and didn't tighten the oil filter.
He got almost 10 miles till she quit.
Oil left out, wrong oil put in,wrong grade bolts used, wrong torque specs, star instead of delta , wrong rotation.. Ran with valves closed, ran with wrong valves open..oil cooler lines reversed, coolant put in oil system, oil put in coolant system.. Who's on first....' I thought you did that?" ...say, what oil did the manual say to use? ." yah I know we're supposed to preheat it to 200 degrees for 6 hours, so heating it to 1200 in one hour is the same?
Nothing is so simple it can't be done wrong.
Murph
Nothing is so simple it can't be done wrong.
Murph
Holy Toledo Batman...Another friggin oil thread....!!!
Yeah but this time we're examining the new SP ILSAC GF6 spec to see if any of those have an MA certification. If it doesn't have an MA certification you can't use it in this bike and that's really what this boils down to. I don't care what brand you use. If it doesn't say MA you better not do it. I would love to use the new SP oil because it meets seven new criteria including reduced cam chain wear but I can't imagine that it's anti-wear additives are going to be wet clutch friendly. Still looking for somebody who can walk down the aisle and spin some bottles around and see if any of the new SP oils also have an MA certification
Safe bet
lucasoil.com
But Red Line crushes them all.
When I was boat racing, we all had to run their spec oil for testing the gas afterward, but the Unlimited class could run whatever they want;
they were spraying with nitrous oxide, no fuel check. Our 7-time unlimited driver always used Red Line as cheap insurance.
High Performance Synthetic Motorcycle Oils
Lucas High Performance Motorcycle Oils are the result of technology gained through years of blending motor oils and gear oils for the racing industry. Lucas High Performance Motorcycle Oils are the result of technology gained through years of blending motor oils and gear oils for the racing...
But Red Line crushes them all.
When I was boat racing, we all had to run their spec oil for testing the gas afterward, but the Unlimited class could run whatever they want;
they were spraying with nitrous oxide, no fuel check. Our 7-time unlimited driver always used Red Line as cheap insurance.
The Friction modifier question has come up for years.
As soon as it does, we see "Experts" quoting things they have read (but have no actual knowledge of).
During those years, many of us (including me) have used Mobil 1, or other automotive oils.
Some (including me) have used additives that were sold at the Motorcycle shops to improve shifting.
All of them "have" the Friction Modifiers in them. (And their probably not MA rated)
Even with many of us using oil that had friction modifier's, most (if not all) of the clutch problems we've seen have been mechanical, not slippage from the oil.
This is probably because most of our riding is done at partial throttle / Not on the racetrack / and we're not pushing 200+ HP.
I see now that they've changed the Diesel truck oils, the friction modifier has come up again, and we're having another big discussion.
I do understand everyone's concerns, but chill.
My point is, we've been using oils "with Friction Modifiers in it" for years.
Don't panic. Let's do some more research.
Ride safe, Ted
Let the flames begin.
As soon as it does, we see "Experts" quoting things they have read (but have no actual knowledge of).
During those years, many of us (including me) have used Mobil 1, or other automotive oils.
Some (including me) have used additives that were sold at the Motorcycle shops to improve shifting.
All of them "have" the Friction Modifiers in them. (And their probably not MA rated)
Even with many of us using oil that had friction modifier's, most (if not all) of the clutch problems we've seen have been mechanical, not slippage from the oil.
This is probably because most of our riding is done at partial throttle / Not on the racetrack / and we're not pushing 200+ HP.
I see now that they've changed the Diesel truck oils, the friction modifier has come up again, and we're having another big discussion.
I do understand everyone's concerns, but chill.
My point is, we've been using oils "with Friction Modifiers in it" for years.
Don't panic. Let's do some more research.
Ride safe, Ted
Let the flames begin.
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Anecdotally in a previous life, I had a Sea-doo RXP around 2005. Took it to the dealer for 1st oil change and they put in the wrong oil. The motor is supercharged, and the supercharger is gear driven with a clutch in line somewhere to eliminate the shock load when jumping wakes or whatever. At any rate the "tech guy" didn't read the manual and put in the wrong oil, rendering the supercharger useless from clutch slip. I was rather upset and all they would do is 3 oil changes to help flush it out. I don't think it was ever right. I now run Motul in my motorcycles, not because it's any better or worse than others. But I trust it not to change and always be compatible.
Great! Just Great! First there is all this talk about the shortage of Rotella T6 due to supply chain issues, then AFTER I find some and purchase 4 gallons, then you decide to start an oil thread.
Mobil 1 4t.. I've been using it for several Metric bikes ranging from 600cc to our 14's.. Never had an issue but I do notice shifting quality goes away after a bit. I try to change it every 4-5k. Sad to say I've barely road this season so it has the same oil i put in it last fall :-/
P.S. I did ride to Home depot and Tractor supply today. 80 miles of luxurious slab lol
P.S. I did ride to Home depot and Tractor supply today. 80 miles of luxurious slab lol
Is there any way of knowing that is a current data sheet?
If so, it sez MA and MA2.
What was changed in Diesel motor oil?The Friction modifier question has come up for years.
As soon as it does, we see "Experts" quoting things they have read (but have no actual knowledge of).
During those years, many of us (including me) have used Mobil 1, or other automotive oils.
Some (including me) have used additives that were sold at the Motorcycle shops to improve shifting.
All of them "have" the Friction Modifiers in them. (And their probably not MA rated)
Even with many of us using oil that had friction modifier's, most (if not all) of the clutch problems we've seen have been mechanical, not slippage from the oil.
This is probably because most of our riding is done at partial throttle / Not on the racetrack / and we're not pushing 200+ HP.
I see now that they've changed the Diesel truck oils, the friction modifier has come up again, and we're having another big discussion.
I do understand everyone's concerns, but chill.
My point is, we've been using oils "with Friction Modifiers in it" for years.
Don't panic. Let's do some more research.
Ride safe, Ted
Let the flames begin.
Some do-getter thought the oil level was low in my Gixxer because on its side stand you didn't see oil in the sight glass. They added at least a quart of their favorite "energy conserving" oil and my clutch slipped afterwards.The Friction modifier question has come up for years.
As soon as it does, we see "Experts" quoting things they have read (but have no actual knowledge of).
During those years, many of us (including me) have used Mobil 1, or other automotive oils.
Some (including me) have used additives that were sold at the Motorcycle shops to improve shifting.
All of them "have" the Friction Modifiers in them. (And their probably not MA rated)
Even with many of us using oil that had friction modifier's, most (if not all) of the clutch problems we've seen have been mechanical, not slippage from the oil.
This is probably because most of our riding is done at partial throttle / Not on the racetrack / and we're not pushing 200+ HP.
I see now that they've changed the Diesel truck oils, the friction modifier has come up again, and we're having another big discussion.
I do understand everyone's concerns, but chill.
My point is, we've been using oils "with Friction Modifiers in it" for years.
Don't panic. Let's do some more research.
Ride safe, Ted
Let the flames begin.
Pretty sure that one's JASO-MA certified. If so then you got the right oil. I'm just wondering about the new SP/ILSAC-GF6 oils. I can't imagine any of these new oils having an MA certificationGreat! Just Great! First there is all this talk about the shortage of Rotella T6 due to supply chain issues, then AFTER I find some and purchase 4 gallons, then you decide to start an oil thread.
There's are new CK4 and FA4 specs as well but we can't assume that all diesel oils have an MA certification. We still have to look at the bottles
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I've checked the containers and they all say JASO MA/MA2. So
.I should probably go back and edit my post to remove the poop emoji, except I've always wanted to use it, and I can't think of any place better suited for it than an oil thread.
My 2011 3.5 Altima has over 290k. I bought it at 76k and have been using Penzoil platinum and an OE filter since. It burns less than a qt between my service intervals which are 4-5k. The dealer put Mobil 1 in it once and it burned over a qt in less than 1k miles.
I have a 6 cylinder Toyota close to 250,000. Mostly Walmart Supertech oil and filters. Starting to lose a 1/2 quart or less between the 7,000 mile changes.Neighbor had a Subaru with 286,000 miles on it, still sounded / looked good when he sold it, I asked him what oil did he use... He said what ever was on sale at oil change time...
Murph
Guys I don't care about the brand of oil that's not my question. My question is whether or not the new LSAC GF6A SP oils could possibly have a JASOMA spec. I can't imagine how it would because it's going to be low friction for timing chains so obvious questions here it's got friction modifiers does it have an MA spec?
We are known to get of course here once in awhile.
Yes. It's mandatory. Not optional