My c10 starting having a tapping noise on the lower left side. As I pulled over, it died. Now it turns over but does not start. What do you think happened. Temp needle never moved from it's regular place.
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Engine noise!
- Thread starter brotheriam6109752
- Start date
While I was riding , it was a clacking noise by the timing chain adjuster. Motor was running. Not the clack,clack,clack of a spun berring. More of a slow clack...clack... Clack. It would increase in speed if I raised the rpms. Then poof. Dead. It turns over but it sounds different. Like no compression. Any thoughts?
It's been a few years since I maintained a C-10, but my initial thought would be to pull the cover on the left side where the crank position sensor is and see if something has come apart.
That was my first thought. Gonna do that today. Pray for nothing major. But that prayer is never answered.
What would cause the sudden stop? That's what is confusing. Almost as if the crank is not turning. Ahhhhhhererer
If the crank position sensor has retired, the ignition won't get the signal to do anything.
Is this like major? But it turns over.
I learned how to work on my bike by asking here and doing things when I had to like when it wouldn't start or when I did not want to take it to a dealer. Get a Kawasaki shop manual for the bike and start with the basics which sounds like taking off the left side cover to begin with and then go from there, ask here, there are folks who have done it, decide if thats indeed the problem and go about repairing it, if not, try asking here again. Its a simple bike really, don't let it intimidate you.
I'm pretty mechanically inclined. I just need some starting points. Like testing the engine to see if it's toast. Compression test? Things like that. Never worked on a large bike.
If, IF, it jumped time, that's bad no?
I guess that depends on how far it jumped. It turns over so that's good. Here's an experience I had with an RX300 Lexus. Driving down the road just fine. Engine just quit. Coasted into a repair shop. Tried to start it. It didn't sound right when cranking it. Problem? Broken timing belt. Non interference engine so no damage other than the belt and my wallet.
Side panels off, tank off, inner fairing panels off, spark plugs out, look in spark plug holes for damage to the pistons. (timing jump with valve contact) if you have a USB borescope you might be able to see the valves. Timing cover off so you can turn it slowly. This will get you to where you can check for interference while slowly turning the engine over. Check the service manual but don't turn it by the bolt on the end of the crankshaft. That can shear the drive key. If that is good then a cold compression test and a hydro lock test. The hydro lock test just because it is easy at this point. Still nothing obvious then valve cover off and you can check timing chain and timing marks on the cam gears.
All of this could be done with little expense and a couple hours of time.
The engine noise would make me think something mechanical not just lose of fuel, air or spark.
All of this could be done with little expense and a couple hours of time.
The engine noise would make me think something mechanical not just lose of fuel, air or spark.
I don't own a service manual. Can someone email me pictures of the pages that cover the above instructions?
I would start with the simple thing first. The C10 doesn't have a crank shaft position sensor, it has a timing rotor on the end of the crank shaft, that big plate in this picture, with 2 pickup coils (the 2 blocks left and right) that determine when the spark plugs should fire.
Since you have already tried to start it and it turns over, it may be possible that this plate has come loose and it has lost its timing, so take the cover off and see if that is the case.
This is on page 4-19 of the manual, they are available on ebay for $30. You can also find a pdf of the manual online.
If things look ok here then you can start pulling other things off (valve cover etc.) I don't think that the cam chain will skip a tooth if the tensioner went bad.
This sounds promising. Thank you much.
I have two pictures I need someone to look at. One is a small piece of metal that was in the above cover. The second is my timing chain is piled up inside . What is this? Super bad or just a hick up.?
Send me an email at brotheriam610@gmail.com
If your timing chain is piled up inside then your timing chain has broken or another catastrophic failure has occurred to a gear.
This is not a hiccup.
If you join as a full member you can easily post pictures and get comment from multiple very experienced folks.
Wayne
Catastrophic? Like dig a grave? Farewell my sweet Connie type of failure? I don't think the chain is broke. Maybe jumped a gear? Catastrophic is an angry word man. A used rebuilt is $900. Cheaper to rebuild? (Big sigh)
I have read where this is an interference engine, meaning that a valve can hit the top of the piston without the proper timing, so Catastrophic.
I suspect that the chain is broken as well, so now you need to take the valve cover off as the next step to look up top. Also if you have already found a used rebuilt one for 900 then I would figure that is what you will need to do as the worst case, if you want to keep using this bike.
How many miles on this engine?
I suspect that the chain is broken as well, so now you need to take the valve cover off as the next step to look up top. Also if you have already found a used rebuilt one for 900 then I would figure that is what you will need to do as the worst case, if you want to keep using this bike.
How many miles on this engine?
74000+
Anybody gonna post.the pics,.so see all might add to the discussion.
I emailed. No reply yet.
Email? Don't see it.
Got it. Picks sent to Bud.
We solve this, I'm a new member
What do I need to do to determine my next course of action?
What is that pick of twisted metal? I don't see that sorta damage.
What is the price of the engine??
What will shipping be?
I just realized that is a very large pic of the little chunk of metal I found.
I have no idea. It's still in the frame.
I'm in Texas. You
Roger is in Bryan TX and Ted is in Houston.Did you remove the valve cover?
Not yet. Worried of what I might find. What should I look for?
Carnage
No carnage. Chain broke. Emailing pick. There is a little piece broke off the top of a lifter. I sent pics. Maybe this saved me???
No chips . Looks new.
Cam sprockets look un hurt. Why the adjusting screw broken?
I'm guessing that the timing chain broke and that caused a piston to hit a valve.
But wondering why the timing chain broke?
That's not a normal thing.
But wondering why the timing chain broke?
That's not a normal thing.
Looks like the bottom of the tensioner broke. That's the metal chunk. It may have gotten between chain and gear. Snap
Replacing the timing chain? Can someone post a page from the manual for me? Thank you!
Hey guys. Paid my dues. Decided this this morning when I woke up. Nobody said ha ha when I requested help. So here is what I got. In the 5th picture you can see where the broke screw came from. Now what? Removing the cam is a must. Best way to check pistons for holes? Please don't say remove the heads.
Attachments
Do NOT turn the motor anymore with the starter.
Bekuz; If you're turning at speed with the starter and the chain lock suddenly, things will break.
Try to remove the chain, and then do a hydrolock test. (to be sure none of the rods are bent)
See Post #5.
forum.concours.org
Bekuz; If you're turning at speed with the starter and the chain lock suddenly, things will break.
Try to remove the chain, and then do a hydrolock test. (to be sure none of the rods are bent)
See Post #5.
2002 Connie needs help!
Looking for lots of parts for this 2002 Connie 1000. Got it free. She's been abused and misused, broken, dropped, busted, rigged up, painted blue, and given up for dead. I have it running. Rode her for about 30 miles. Found out the generator is bad, clutch slips, breaks stick, front wheel on...
forum.concours.org
Remove the
Battery out, valve cover removed, sparkplugs removed. Getting chain out is to remove back cam?
Ha ha fartymarty.
What should I not see?
Damage to the top of the piston from contact with a valve that was open. Spare parts or chunks of metal from a broken valve. A valve that is bent. Gouges in the cylinder walls from metal in the edges of the piston that then moved up and down as it was failing or when you turned it over with the starter. It wouldn't hurt to pull the carbs and exhaust and use the borescope to look into there also. Any damage noted and the head should come off for further investigation. With the broken rocker arm look very closely at that cylinder and valve. Others might have hit but not with enough force to brake the rocker arm. From the other post DO NOT U|SE GAS to leak check the cylinders. It would only tell you if you had a hole in the piston top and you might be able to see that just with a flash light with the piston a the bottom of the stroke.
As you might guess this can cascade into a lot of time, work, and money. You might want to look into a replacement engine. As of right now you don't know why the cam chain failed. That will need to be fixed also. With the rocker arm damage and at least 1 other chunk of metal, how much other debris is in the oil pan or scattered about the crank shaft area?
As you might guess this can cascade into a lot of time, work, and money. You might want to look into a replacement engine. As of right now you don't know why the cam chain failed. That will need to be fixed also. With the rocker arm damage and at least 1 other chunk of metal, how much other debris is in the oil pan or scattered about the crank shaft area?
Now we are getting deep. You think I should remove the heads? That would be the right and sure thing to do right? If I start in on it like that, I'm to stubborn to quit. But hey, she was a beast before this. I gotta save it. Here goes a second mortgage and a property lien. Anyone wanna buy my first born?? 
You would not want to see the below or anything like it. As noted above any witness of contact then leads to further required investigation. Was the valve bent at all and now sealing surfaces do not matchup on the head. Was guide damaged. Seen below the ridges on the piston from the impression will create hotspots and metal floating around in the cylinder when they ‘burn’ off.
This will need to be your personal decision but if there’s any indication of a strike, the cost in your time, parts, any mistakes along the way would far outweigh a replacement engine, IMO.
Check with your borescope first then decide if you want to pull the head. I think I saw you are to get a factory manual, before even thinking of doing this - read through all you will need to do, make certain you are aware of all steps, tooling, replacement part costs and feel confident before you proceed to invest further here.
Wayne
I wouldn't remove the head yet.Now we are getting deep. You think I should remove the heads? That would be the right and sure thing to do right? If I start in on it like that, I'm to stubborn to quit. But hey, she was a beast before this. I gotta save it. Here goes a second mortgage and a property lien. Anyone wanna buy my first born??
I would remove the chain and any debris you can, do a hydrolock test, and then use an inexpensive bore scope to look into the cylinders.
If all of that looks promising, I'd then decide on my next step.
(That step might be to install a timing chain and rocker so you can do a compression or leak down check).
Ride safe, Ted
I'm capable of the work. Never been this deep, but I feel confident in my ability. Worse case, new motor plus shipping. I get this manual, I'm going in beast mode on this. Maybe open a bike shop!! Become world famous! Yeah, it's gonna be tragic. But I feel good about it because I got this place to get guidance. Slow, but it works.
Removing timing chain today. Let it begin!
Removing timing chain today. Let it begin!
Love the enthusiasm and then immediate rethinking: “Yeah, it’s gonna be tragic.”
Important thing is your eyes are wide open, you are getting good advice (manual, here) and you know the options.
Again I love the getting informed and can-do attitude; first step of success of deciding to move forward.
Wayne
As you're an AC Technician, you have nitrogen?
If so, just buy a cheap compression tester somewhere, install the fitting into a spark plug hole and hook the nitrogen to that fitting.
Rotate the engine to midstroke and put it in gear. (so that the engine can't turn).
Then rotate the cams so that all the valves are closed in that cylinder.
Pressure it up to about 20-50 psi and see if there is leakage thru a piston or a bent valve.
If good do all 4 cylinders the same way.
NOTE: I may have left out a few details as I'm doing this quickly. Sooooo, ask questions if you have any, or others can add details that I missed.
Ride safe, Ted
If so, just buy a cheap compression tester somewhere, install the fitting into a spark plug hole and hook the nitrogen to that fitting.
Rotate the engine to midstroke and put it in gear. (so that the engine can't turn).
Then rotate the cams so that all the valves are closed in that cylinder.
Pressure it up to about 20-50 psi and see if there is leakage thru a piston or a bent valve.
If good do all 4 cylinders the same way.
NOTE: I may have left out a few details as I'm doing this quickly. Sooooo, ask questions if you have any, or others can add details that I missed.
Ride safe, Ted
Spoke to Sefsick. Said a broke rocker arm is a sign of a bent valve from contact to a piston. Cost effective would be to buy another motor. Now I'm sad. The good news was that there is a slight chance .0001 that I'm good. Any suggestions?
Nitrogen I have. Gotta get that fitting. I may already have it. I'm learning things every day here. Now, how do you pull a valve?? Yeah, remove the head.
Waiting on a bore cam. Will post pics for input.
I found him a new timing chain or used parts to do a bent valve test.
But, I'm unsure if a timing chain and guides can be installed without pulling the head and cylinder (??).
Does anyone know???
Ride safe, Ted
But, I'm unsure if a timing chain and guides can be installed without pulling the head and cylinder (??).
Does anyone know???
Ride safe, Ted
Pulling head should not be needed.
FSM will have clear step by step instructions.
Wayne
The manual says it can be done without pulling the head.
If it does have bent valves, it may be possible to just replace the bent valves and sand smooth any sharp edges on piston contact damage as long as the piston edge or valve seats aren't damaged. A friend of mine repaired a ZX600-C engine that suffered several bent valves due to a broken timing chain by just replacing the vent valves. It ran great again after that.
That was my first course of action after a pressure test.
New toy.
Let us know what you find! Photos if possible!
Seth, your in my home state! Joliet.
Ah, wow, I'm just an hour away in Aurora! Perhaps we'll run into each other sometime.
Well, I'm in Texas now. But I have lots of family up there. Alton, Godfrey, Granite City, I fix this Connie, I'm going to travel with it.