Author Topic: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night  (Read 3629 times)

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Offline 4Bikes

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Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« on: November 06, 2013, 06:15:59 AM »
Last November, I purchased an HJC RPHA helmet that came with the Pinlock visor shield.  I only use the Pinlock anti-fog insert on my clear shield, and only use that during the colder months.  The colder months also mean more chance of riding at night.

I read a warning somewhere (likely the packaging) that said Pinlock was not suitable for night riding, since light transmission is only 80% and multiple reflections can occur.

I definitely see the reflections, and if you don’t focus your eyes long distance, I can see how they could distract you.  Since the purpose of anti-fog helps so much in the cold, I’m not sure which would be worse, the reflections or the fog. 

Is anybody else seeing the reflections with the Pinlock Visor, and do you feel it’s safe to use it at night?
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Offline smithr1

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2013, 10:34:01 AM »
Yep I can see why they are not for night use.  I don't even like it in the day because of the changes to my vision.  I really like having clear vision.  I find that since I ware glasses having anti fog on the shield might work but does not do a thing if my glasses want to fog.  I may just take it off because of all the issues.

Offline JeffP

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2013, 10:47:16 AM »
I have the Pinlock on my Shoei GT-AIR helmet. I don't notice any visual interference during the day or night.
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Offline Rob

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2013, 11:56:42 AM »
I use one with a Nolan and don't have any issues.

Offline ZG

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2013, 12:02:50 PM »
I have one on my Neotec and use it in the dark with no issues, I do remember seeing that warning sticker on it not to though...  ???


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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2013, 12:17:56 PM »
I will need to do some more night riding to be sure, but I think if you recognize the moving reflections are there, but not real objects, you will just adapt your eyes and get used to them over time.   It has to be better than a fogged lens.  I think all Pinlocks are the same regardless of the manufacturer of the visor and helmet.
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Offline kawcon14rider

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2013, 02:27:36 PM »
4Bikes I have the same helmet and don't have any problems. Had the pinlock insulted since last March.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 03:04:17 PM »
4Bikes I have the same helmet and don't have any problems. Had the pinlock insulted since last March.

Do you use the Pinlock full time?  Perhaps I'm just noticing the change and reflections after going back to it last week after months with a light smoke visor that I usually raise for night riding. Did you see the night time warning with the Pinlock that shipped with the helmet?
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Offline kawcon14rider

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2013, 03:45:12 PM »
Yes I use the pinlock full time. I pulled the instructions for the Pinlock sys and could not find anything about not using for night riding. Only warning has to do with cleaning and that it is less resistant to scratching than the original visor. All is well.  :great:
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Offline ZG

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2013, 05:36:07 PM »

Do you use the Pinlock full time? 

I do.  :great:


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Offline Cigar Jay

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2013, 08:51:29 PM »
running mine at night small amount of reflection is easy to get used to
-fogging up on the other hand is unacceptable
just my two cents worth
jay

Offline Tony

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 09:13:21 PM »
Not sure if it has to do with the RPHA helmet.  I also have the same helmet and don't really like the pinlock visor because I like 100% distortion free viewing.  I've been using it during the day when its cold but I prefer not to use them at all.  The seal is so tight on the RPHA I have that it really fogs up quickly in our moisture laden PNW weather
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Offline Grumpy Goat

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2013, 12:06:54 AM »
I am in awe at how effective the Pinlock visor is at preventing fogging, and I use mine all the time: clear at night and smoked during daytime.

There are some reflections at night, hence the 'daytime use only' warning, but I have learned to ignore them. IMO zero fogging outweighs the reflection issue.
]}:-{>

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Offline Brass

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2013, 03:56:23 AM »
I have one on my Neotec and use it in the dark with no issues, I do remember seeing that warning sticker on it not to though...  ???

Same here
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2013, 05:38:19 AM »
I figured other forums would be discussing this and found this post on ADVrider.  I don’t have my helmet with me, but is the daytime warning stamped on the lens?

He is a snip from the post:  (the guy analyzes the stuff like BDF)

I've read a few reviews elsewhere of other riders mentioning this reflection issue in dim light, so I know I'm not the only one. The rest here is for informational/discussion purposes, so if you don't care or aren't having any problems, you can skip this part, but for those of you interested, here's my theory...

I think what's happening here is the result of two reflections. it appears that the light is passing through the face shield and reflecting off of the insert.  These "bright" spots are then reflecting back out toward the shield.  Some of the light escapes through the shield, but because the inside of the shield is also glossy, a weaker version of the bright spot reflection reflects back into the rider's eyes. Due to the curvature of the shield and lens and the approach angle of the light, the ghosting typically appears toward the center line of the helmet shield.  If you look at a light head on, you actually get two ghosts, one to either side of the light source.

The DAYTIME USE ONLY is clearly stamped on the clear lens insert as well as the smoke, so I'm guessing that Pinlock is aware of this issue and that this is the warning. This is their product, of course, and they can certainly govern its intended use, but personally,  I bought this product to do away with shield fogging when it's the worst -- cold nights. I've kind of just traded one problem for another.  It doesn't seem like it would take much in the way of design to make a version that works equally as well at night, too.

That said, I think I'd rather have ghosts than deal with fog and cold, so I'm still relatively happy with the purchase, but still, the problem can disappear with a small design change, and let's face it, this system isn't exactly cheap, so what's wrong with expecting the best in clarity?


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Offline BJ_CT

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 06:53:31 AM »
My Schuberth C3 comes standard with Pinlock.  I don't think it can be purchased without it.  I've never notice, in hundreds of miles of night time riding with and without rain, any ghost shadows.  I think the phenomena probably has something to do with how close the sheild sits to the eyes.  The sheild sits very close to the face, much closer than my SyMax did.  I wear glasses full time.

While I grade it as excellent in the fog department, mine will fog up while stopped in a rain / high humidity situatio but so will my glasses in the right situation.  Lift the sheild slightly and it disappears.  If moisture gets between the Pinlock and the shield, it's will take some time to dry up once it stops raining.  This occurs, obviously, because of slight leaking around the seal.  This usually occurs, if it's going to occur at all, after a considerable amount of time in a heavy rain.

All that said, I wouldn't choose to ride without one.
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Offline kawcon14rider

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 07:52:34 AM »
I went back nd pulled all the paper work that came with my helmet. Could not find no warning about nighttime use. In fact I found some very interesting imfo.  The Pinlock visor just the HJC shield are 100% Max vision. I like BJ wear glasses all the time and have no problems.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 08:39:27 AM »
I found this at http://pinlockusa.net/FAQ

What does “Day Time Use Only” mean?
If you look at your helmet shield, it is marked with “VESC-8”. This refers to a United States Standard for light transmittance for a single pane visor/shield. All Visors/shields must meet certain standards, one of which is the transmittance of light.

The requirement for motorcyclists’ eye protection is found in Section 7 of the Vehicle Equipment Safety Commission’s regulation VESC-8 adopted in 1971 and amended in 1980:
Section 7. Light Transmittance of Eye Protection Devices (EPD)
7.1 CLEAR – A clear EPD is a device which transmits not less than 85% of the incident visible radiation.
7.2 TINTED – A tinted EPD is a device which transmits less than 85% of the incident visible radiation but not less than 20%.
7.2.1 A tinted EPD shall not impair the wearer’s ability to discern color.
   7.2.2 A tinted EPD shall not be used at night.

A shield may have less than 85% transmittance as long as it is not less than 20% and does not impair the ability to discern color. Any shield that transmits less than 85% cannot be used at night and can only be used during the day time.
 
Most shields/visors have a 90 – 91% light transmittance. When you combine the shield/visor with another shield/visor or in our case with a Pinlock lens, the light transmittance will be reduced. The combination of the Pinlock lens and shield will have a light transmittance range from over 20 % to a little over 80%. Therefore, the requirement to place “Day Time Use Only” on the lens. Pinlock does not impede the wearer’s ability to discern color.

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Offline wile_e_coyote

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 10:21:49 AM »
Here is what Pinlock says about it.

What does “Day Time Use Only” mean?
 
If you look at your helmet shield, it is marked with “VESC-8”.  This refers to a United States Standard for light transmittance for a single pane visor/shield.  All Visors/shields must meet certain standards, one of which is the transmittance of light. 
 
The requirement for motorcyclists’ eye protection is found in Section 7 of the Vehicle Equipment Safety Commission’s regulation VESC-8 adopted in 1971 and amended in 1980:
 
Section 7. Light Transmittance of Eye Protection Devices (EPD)
 
7.1 CLEAR – A clear EPD is a device which transmits not less than 85% of the incident visible radiation.
 
7.2 TINTED – A tinted EPD is a device which transmits less than 85% of the incident visible radiation but not less than 20%.
 
7.2.1  A tinted EPD shall not impair the wearer’s ability to discern color.
 
   7.2.2 A tinted EPD shall not be used at night.
 
A shield may have less than 85% transmittance as long as it is not less than 20% and does not impair the ability to discern color.  Any shield that transmits less than 85% cannot be used at night and can only be used during the day time. 
 
Most shields/visors have a 90 – 91% light transmittance.  When you combine the shield/visor with another shield/visor or in our case with a Pinlock lens, the light transmittance will be reduced.  The combination of the Pinlock lens and shield will have a light transmittance range from over 20 % to a little over 80%.  Therefore, the requirement to place “Day Time Use Only” on the lens.  Pinlock does not impede the wearer’s ability to discern color.

Offline reid53

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2013, 11:06:59 AM »
I just recently bought an HJC RPHA helmet and installed the Pinlock insert.  I finished an Iron Butt SS1000 last night with 8 hours of it in the dark.  I did noticed a very minute reflection, but nothing distracting at all.  Love the anti-fogging! :great:
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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 02:11:33 PM »
I recently bought a yellow-tinted Pinlock to go on a spare shield for my IS-BT HJC helmet.  With the yellow tint installed I have yet to ride at night.  But in low-light level conditions of foggy or rainy conditions, I can see quite well.

Now with the time change this past weekend, I will have more chance to ride at night during my commute homeward.
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Offline 4Bikes

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 02:54:04 PM »
I looked closely at my clear Pinlock shield. It does have a warning stamped on it "Daytime Use Only". I assume they all have the same stamp. I will ride at night with it, since it beats fog, but I do notice a diffence in vision with it installed.
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Offline Slab Hardcheese

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2013, 01:50:52 PM »
Ditto on using the pinlock in the dark.  In my area (Seattle) I have no choice while commuting.  Other fog remedies are useless and I can say I've not noticed any problems seeing.  I'll usually remove the pinlock in the summer because it is slightly clearer and with the warmer air I can just vent the visor and wear sunglasses, but in winter I use it BECAUSE I have to ride in the dark, foggy rain, and cold.  It is the safest solution.

Offline Old Steve

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 07:25:25 PM »
I read this last night, and I honestly didn't know what problem people were trying to describe - I'd never noticed any reflection issues with the pinlock insert in my Arai Signet-Q.  After work tonight, I got about half way home before the oncoming headlights reminded me that I was supposed to be having trouble seeing.  If I tilted my head just right, I THINK I could see the double reflection that others were describing.  IMHO, it's no problem whatsoever.  On the other hand, the anti-fogginess of the visor with the insert installed is flat out awesome, especially on cold mornings with the chin spoiler pulled down!

Offline Ocean

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Re: Using a Pinlock Visor at Night
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2013, 07:27:35 PM »
no problem with my Shoei Neotec pinlock at night.......