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2008 ECU Successfully re-flashed

Fred H.

Fred H.

Member
Member
Good news. The first 2008 has been successfully reflashed by Guhl Motors with the new secondary butterfly map and the reports are that it greatly improved the response. I believe Don also wants to do some dyno testing when he gets a chance. The owner that brought him the bike said it made such a big difference that he didn't want Don to reflash it back to stock because it rode so much better. So it looks like some real progress was made today.

Don said if folks want to send him their ECU and have him reprogram them, that he will charge about $275-$300 for it, but if you want to bring your bike in and put it on the dyno and dial in the fuel, that will raise the cost about another $100 or so.

He also said he hopes to have the cable and software out this summer, and that it will be in the $600 range, and will provide one license to reprogram one ECU, with additional licenses sold separately. This software will let you make your own adjustments to the ECU maps and reload them as many times as you want.

The next step will be to do a 2010.

A HUGE THANKS goes out to Murph for ponying up the $$ for the Ebay ECU and Milsan and GTRTraveler and others for working with Don and helping make this project a success.

This will offer owners a way to open up the secondary butterflies and gain low end torque and increase throttle response without needing to go in and risk damage to the screws for the butterflies.
 
I spoke to Don on Thursday about getting my 09 reflashed and will allow him to work on the fueling with mine as well on the dyno.  :)  His work on reprogramming how the secondary butterflies behave seems to be solid as reported above.  However, he said he has not had the chance to work out proper fuel maps for the C-14 so I guess mine will be a guinnie pig for his work.  He said it would take the better part of a day to do the fine tuning on the dyno.  Unfortunately, he cannot get to it for about a month due to the car racing season just starting and he is slammed with that work. :(       

I usually hang out at www.zzrbikes.com and many folks there who have ZX-14's and C-14's pull the flies and put in a power commander to compensate for fueling and have reported great results.  I've been resistant to doing that since I've always seen reprogramming the ECU as a better solution since it controls the secondary butterflies and the fuel mapping.  Just my .02 cents worth. :) 
 
Glad to hear it. I know Don is really busy right now, but getting him to work on the fuel mapping will be a big plus, and he really needs a bike on the dyno to do that.

I'm told He put a "jumper" on one of the ECU's he returned to an owner that allows him to switch back and forth between stock and modified programming for the butterflies. That sounds like an interesting option as well.

We'll probably also have to repeat this whole process for the 2010/2011 bikes, cause they have a slightly different ECU with different programming.
 
Don at Guhl motors has now downloaded the 2010 ECU and identified the various maps in it, and will be putting a 2010 on the dyno next week, and reflashing the ECU in it. It looks like the ECO mode has separate maps in it for the fuel and butterflies and ignition, so he should be able to leave the ECO mode maps stock and only alter the other set of maps. This means that by switching to ECO mode, your butterflies will be programed back to the stock program, so you'll have two totally different performance levels available to you at the touch of a button.
 
bob14 said:
Fred what is different between the reflash from Dytronics and Don's maps
Click to expand...

Bob, I'm not exactly sure, but Dynotronics seems somewhat reluctant to want to reprogram the map for the secondary butterflies, which (at least for me) is the entire goal of reflashing the ECU in the first place. They also don't have a bike dyno on site. I believe all their bike maps are actually made by someone overseas (Spain I think). It seems like they concentrate solely on making changes to the fuel and ignition timing maps.

Guhl motors has already remapped the secondary butterflies (opening RPMS and percentages) in the ECU and they have seen significant gains. They will be putting a 2010 on a dyno tomorrow (5-17-11) and doing some more testing.
 
Thanks Fred . I was interested in the Dytronics ( in the old thread) from the perspective of cleaning up the "pig rich" fuel mapping in stock form and smoothing out the torque and power .
I mostly commute and 2 up with Mama , opening the flies earlier seem like a fuel negative move ?? Right now I am running the PCIII with Jamie's fuel econo map ,I'd like to remove that and run with
one of these choices . Guhl does have a better price and sounds like a petter performance map but I'd hate to loose MPG on the road.
 
Fred, let me correct you here on a few things;

First, while we do not have a bike dyno here in the shop, we do have a total of 5 load cell dynos for bikes in a 20 mike radius that we use. No need for us to buy another 80K$ dyno to my mind when my dealers have them close by. I do however have something like 500K$ in dynos here at the shop, chassis, engine, shaft, ect, so I do know a thing or two about them.

Second, we have no problem adjusting the plates as you wish, however, as you an I have talked about, simply open the plates up will not make a huge difference in the tuning. It needs to be a mixture of timing, fuel, and air flow map adjustments to see a great improvement. The simple fact is the plates are there for air flow modification to manipulate the tq curve.

Third, our bike files are written by my partner, Christian Piasini, the man that broke the coding on the Mitsubishi ecu in the gtr1400. Like what Don does, we make changes to the map, and Christian writes that into coding for us, so it is a colaborative effort, and it works quite well

And to answer the original posted question; we do not have a one size fits all base map( euro map) for the bikes we tune. we tune each bike for each customer with the data they give us. We can then, based on data from your dyno runs, make this the perfect file for your bike. Don does nice work, but we have a very different approach to tuning based on 20+ years, and an engineering background
 
dynotronics1 said:
Fred, let me correct you here on a few things;

First, while we do not have a bike dyno here in the shop, we do have a total of 5 load cell dynos for bikes in a 20 mike radius that we use. No need for us to buy another 80K$ dyno to my mind when my dealers have them close by. I do however have something like 500K$ in dynos here at the shop, chassis, engine, shaft, ect, so I do know a thing or two about them.

Second, we have no problem adjusting the plates as you wish, however, as you an I have talked about, simply open the plates up will not make a huge difference in the tuning. It needs to be a mixture of timing, fuel, and air flow map adjustments to see a great improvement. The simple fact is the plates are there for air flow modification to manipulate the tq curve.

Third, our bike files are written by my partner, Christian Piasini, the man that broke the coding on the Mitsubishi ecu in the gtr1400. Like what Don does, we make changes to the map, and Christian writes that into coding for us, so it is a colaborative effort, and it works quite well

And to answer the original posted question; we do not have a one size fits all base map( euro map) for the bikes we tune. we tune each bike for each customer with the data they give us. We can then, based on data from your dyno runs, make this the perfect file for your bike. Don does nice work, but we have a very different approach to tuning based on 20+ years, and an engineering background
Click to expand...

Joe,

First of all, I'm glad to see you on this forum, and I do appreciate what you are doing. I also agree with you that all three things need to be taken into account, fuel, airflow, and ignition. One thing though that I guess I'm not clear on is how you make adjustments to the map for each individual bike. Are the adjustments to the map made at your facility, and if so, how do you test them without putting the bike on a dyno? I have a wideband sensor and PCV with Autotune in my bike, and I guess I could probably verify the fueling with it, but I really feel like it may need to go on a dyno to get it dialed in right.

I know we have gone back and forth on the argument about the programing of the butterflies, and I fully understand your point about intake velocities at low RPM. But I also think that if you actually saw the differences in the torque curve that having them open sooner makes you'd agree that Kawasaki has them programmed to restrictively from the factory.
 
I had a long talk with Joe at Dynotronics this morning, and I think maybe there is some misunderstanding about how they program the ECU. They are indeed opening up the secondary butterflies sooner and further than stock, though I'm not sure exactly how much. From what I got from Joe, they have already put a 2010 on a dyno in Europe and made maps for it, and apparently they ship US spec bikes to Europe for just this purpose. After talking to him on the phone, I feel like I have a higher level of confidence in their product.

I feel like it's a good thing that there is some competition out there in this arena and that its not being done by just one company. I think in the end, owners will benefit from this.

I also found out this morning that the dyno run at Guhl motors on the 2010 that was scheduled for today did not happen due to bad weather in the area.
 
Sent mine in yesterday to Joe at Dynotronics...can't wait.
Do have him send you his shipping address very weird street name ??? the UPS lady asked "are you sure ?" made me wonder if I did get it right ???
Should be there Friday morning Joe
Bob
 
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