Front Brake lines Upgrade?

[duplantier130]

Hello Connie Friends
I'm probably rehashing an old post on this so sorry but I'm new to the club. My 2016 C14 just doesn't have strong powerful brakes too me? Yeah she stops OK? But I want to be able to yank her down from speed with authority! I can do this easily on my Ninja which has very strong biting and progressive breaks that you can feel working at the lever and only requires 1 finger to stop. And say from 65 to zero, I can hustle the Ninja to a stop that can make your eye balls pop out! The Connie feels soft and just no where near as strong and that's using the linked system or not. I've changed the brakes to a more aggressive pad, plus the fluid and bled them twice. Still she feels, well "soft"? It's a smooth consistent braking but just... Meh. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Bud]

Support a club member. Buy them from Murph. He supports us. He does things for us he doesn't have to do. He listens. He's not a big corporation. Do you need more reasons? Hope that helps

 

[Keith S]

Overall, I think the C14 has a pretty good reputation for braking performance, especially given the amount of mass you're dealing with and relatively soft-sprung front end. For those looking to improve, most people start with the EBC Double-H sintered pads (available from Murph's). But, if you're really after a more aggressive bite, it's probably time to think about upgrading the lines.

Those that have upgraded to stainless brake lines report back with good results for improved feel. I doubt you'll get performance that will match a supersport running Stylemas, but you'll also get much longer brake line life compared to the OEM recommended replacement of every 4 years (which, I believe, is overly conservative on the part of mama-Kaw).

Personally, I'm in the same camp as you. I've been spoiled by Brembo and stainless braided lines on my Daytona. So, I am currently in possession of a Galfer upgrade kit (FK003D937-11) that will be installed soon on the Connie.

There's a good article written by Ben Getz (ZXtasy) in the Summer 2021 edition of The Concourier that covers the upgrade process.

 

[Pmack]

I went the braided line and EBC HH pad route,(cleaned calipers, re-built the master cylinder, and cleaned/lubed bobbins too) and wasn't very impressed with the results.
A set of Vesrah RJL-XX pads is what fixed the brakes for me, I wish I had bought these before I bought brake lines.
Huge difference in power and feel.
They are stupid expensive.

 

[laker9142]

The brakes are good on the street and even spirited mountain riding. They shouldn't feel soft, if so then possibly new brake lines will help, also complete rebuild and fluid flush. I have steel braids, don't remember which ones. On mountain roads I don't use a lot of brake, just cover and drag.

Like I said they're pretty responsive, so much so, that when I buy pads, I buy stock Kawasaki 2010 and up, because the 08/09 pads are very quick to bite.

Track days are a different story. The brakes turn to mush in 2 laps. 900 lbs with rider coming down from 130mph requires better brakes.

 

[chrismpero]

I read on the FB that the C14s already have stainless braided lines and they just have a rubber exterior. That being said i would consider upgrading to the Brembo setup from the ZX14 SE before you tackle the lines if you want more clamping force and better feel. Just my 2c

 

[Pmack]

I read on the FB that the C14s already have stainless braided lines and they just have a rubber exterior. That being said i would consider upgrading to the Brembo setup from the ZX14 SE before you tackle the lines if you want more clamping force and better feel. Just my 2c

I just dug my 2009 OEM lines out, and they certainly don't appear to be braided.
If they weren't in such great shape, I would cut one open.

 

[Strawboss]

I'm interested too, so, are they in fact stainless? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Pmack]

I'm interested too, so, are they in fact stainless? Inquiring minds want to know.

Just cut them, definitely rubber lines at least for a 2009.
Facebook info for the fail @chrismpero .

 

[rlievenski4555]

I put on the Galfer stainless lines last year and felt a huge improvement in brake feel. This season, I am upgrading to sintered pads to get rid of pulsation in the front lever. Using a rotor hone to completely clean the discs of the deposits from the OEM organic units. Looking forward to determine if an improvement is evident. Yes, I will clean and free up the bobbins while at it.

 

[cuda]

I changed mine ten years ago for no good reason, don't remember any real change, I never use my brakes much anyhow except at the track

They claimed stainless steel but I see rust under the plastic cover in some areas ..

Motorcycle Brake Line Kits | Spiegler USA

Spiegler's stainless steel braided brake lines, quality you can count on.

spieglerusa.com

 

[mgoodrich]

Interesting in that Deepseamdv replaced his brake lines with Gafer SS, and then cut into his old ones and found SS braid under the first layer of rubber. He also cut into the clutch and said the same thing.

Searched under brake lines in this forum, found it on a may 14 2015 post and in a post in 2017.

He had a 2009 as well.

 

[ZXtasy]

When I cut the stock lines off my 2013 up, there is a Kevlar? braided layer, made it harder to cut than I imagined but still more subject to degradation, cutting and sponginess.

 

[Keith S]

I thought I would update this thread and pass long my experience with the Galfer branded stainless steel upgrade that I just completed on my 2018 C14 (29,000 miles).

• Galfer kit FK003D937-11
• I can confirm that the kit does actually include one extra short line. It's a match to three of the lines that go from the ABS unit to hard lines running over the top of the frame. Not sure why. They also include a few extra "olive" inserts and copper washers for the banjo fittings - 'cause that stuff just flies off into space every once in a while while you're installing.
• Running the clutch line was the most difficult due to the routing (I was lazy and didn't want to take apart the entire left side sub frame and wiring). To remove the old clutch hard line, I simply used heavy diagonals and chopped it into three pieces. Problem solved. Threading the new clutch line down from the top wasn't very difficult at all. But, installing the banjo fitting at the slave cylinder was a complete PITA. It's a very tight fit given the angle of the banjo fitting, but it does work. It's easier to just remove the slave cylinder and loosely attach the banjo. Then, put everything back in place and tighten things down while adjusting the angle of the clutch line at the banjo connection. Be careful of the black plastic spacer between the slave cylinder and the case - it can break easily. Mine did. Part #92026-1263. $18 + 5 days to get it in.
• The line from the rear caliper to the ABS unit is unnecessarily long and there isn't a great option to make it fit, leaving a bit of an s-curve in the line. Also, the lines at the front going from the calipers to the hard line connections at the steering head are a bit long. All are minor gripes.
• Definitely take the advice of ZXtasy and purchase some 6 mm x 15 socket cap screws for installing various hose clamps. The original screws will be way too long due to the differences in fittings. I used these, but even the 15mm's were a bit too long in a couple spots. So, I'd suggest 6mm x 12 instead.
• I installed speed bleeders from Murphs' since I was also using this as an opportunity to replace all of the rubber components in calipers and master/slave cylinders. With speed bleeders in place, refilling and bleeding the lines with fluid was much easier than I expected. Almost. When I completed the rear, the pedal was noticeably firmer than the previous pedal feel. However, the front brake handle felt no different than original - almost a bit more spongy. That got me thinking that maybe my expectations were a bit lofty. After all, the old lines were only 4 years old. I clamped the brake handle with a zip tie and left it overnight. Then, I re-bled the front calipers and front master cylinder the next day. Wow! The difference was amazing. The front lever feel is now very firm and consistent.
• I used Motul RBF 600 brake fluid for everything. I also installed a new set of Vesrah sintered brake pads (VD-444JL), replacing the previous EBC pads.

Is it worth it? Absolutely. In my situation, the brake feel on initial bite and overall progressive feel all the way to ABS kicking in is MUCH improved over the original. How much of that is attributable to the brake lines alone is impossible to say, given that I also did caliper & master cylinder clean/rebuild, brake fluid upgrade, and new brake pads. But, if you're to the point that you want/need to replace brake lines, I wouldn't even consider a new set of OEM. These will pretty much last forever (I hope) and ultimately cost less. Have you seen the price of OEM brake lines?

And, just to drive a nail in the coffin about whether the original brake lines were already braided stainless steel with a rubber outer liner.

Nope.

 

[ZXtasy]

Nice write up...

 

[hammerash]

curious, that Galfer kit says only 2010-2014. I know they changed the amount of front braking that occurs when you use the rear brake in the low combined setting in 2015, but I didn't know that the hoses are different. Can anyone verify that the hoses are different between 2014 and 2015?

 

[Pmack]

Wow! The difference was amazing. The front lever feel is now very firm and consistent.

• I used Motul RBF 600 brake fluid for everything. I also installed a new set of Vesrah sintered brake pads (VD-444JL), replacing the previous EBC pads.

Is it worth it? Absolutely. In my situation, the brake feel on initial bite and overall progressive feel all the way to ABS kicking in is MUCH improved over the original. How much of that is attributable to the brake lines alone is impossible to say, given that I also did caliper & master cylinder clean/rebuild, brake fluid upgrade, and new brake pads. But, if you're to the point that you want/need to replace brake lines, I wouldn't even consider a new set of OEM. These will pretty much last forever (I hope) and ultimately cost less. Have you seen the price of OEM brake lines?

And, just to drive a nail in the coffin about whether the original brake lines were already braided stainless steel with a rubber outer liner.

Nope.

I did everything you did first time around with EBC pads and didn't get the power and feel I was looking for.
Galfer lines, Motul, caliper disassembled and cleaned, rebuild kit on the master, etc.
Then I put the Vesrah pads in, problem solved. If I had it to do over, this is where I would start.

 

[hammerash]

I looked part numbers for the brake lines. Here is what I found comparing a 2015 with a 2014. They are organized by thinking about the flow of fluid when pull lever or push pedal. For example, for front fluid goes through hose, then pipe, then hose to ABS unit. Then from there to hose, pipe, hose to Left caliper and hose, pipe, hose to Left caliper. So the hose at front brake lever is different part number between 2014 and 2015, as well as the hose at left front caliper. All others are the same. Do not know what the differences are.




2015

front

43095D HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR M/CYLINDER
43095-0850

43060 PIPE-BRAKE,HU-FR M/CYLINDER
43060-0059

43095A HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR M/CYL.,JNT.
43095-0558


left

43095B HOSE-BRAKE,HU-CALIPER LH,JNT.
43095-0559

43060B PIPE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER
43060-0071

43095E HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER,LH
43095-0851


right

43095C HOSE-BRAKE,HU-CALIPER RH,JNT.
43095-0560

43060A PIPE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER
43060-0060

43095 HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER RH
43095-0496


rear

43060 PIPE-BRAKE,HU-RR M/CYLINDER
43060-0074

43095B HOSE-BRAKE,HU-RR M/CYLINDER
43095-0561

43095C HOSE-BRAKE,HU-RR CALIPER
43095-0562

43060A PIPE-BRAKE,HU-RR CALIPER,JNT.
43060-0075

43095A HOSE-BRAKE,HU-RR CALIPER
43095-0498



2014

front

43095 HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR M/CYLINDER
43095-0494

43060 PIPE-BRAKE,HU-FR M/CYLINDER
43060-0059

43095C HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR M/CYL.,JNT.
43095-0558


left

43095D HOSE-BRAKE,HU-CALIPER LH,JNT.
43095-0559

43060B PIPE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER
43060-0071

43095A HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER LH
43095-0495



right

43095E HOSE-BRAKE,HU-CALIPER RH,JNT.
43095-0560

43060A PIPE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER
43060-0060

43095B HOSE-BRAKE,HU-FR CALIPER RH
43095-0496



rear

43060 PIPE-BRAKE,HU-RR M/CYLINDER
43060-0074

43095B HOSE-BRAKE,HU-RR M/CYLINDER
43095-0561

43095C HOSE-BRAKE,HU-RR CALIPER
43095-0562

43060A PIPE-BRAKE,HU-RR CALIPER,JNT.
43060-0075

43095A HOSE-BRAKE,HU-RR CALIPER
43095-0498

 

[hmfg2200]

I would like to 2nd what Pmack said about starting with the pads. I will try out Vesrah pads at my next replacement. I was using EBC pads on the previous C14 that were decent. The new brakes were terrible on the C14 I bought in feb so I went with Brembo pads all the way around on this bike. Have much better feel, I would also suggest starting with better pads vs lines & replacing/ rebuilding everything else. As a professional auto/ truck technican, pads make a huge difference. I generally use Porterfield pads on my cars & trucks for the performance.