Due mostly to great posts here on COG forums I have a decent understanding of KIPAS, and passive versus active fobs. I have only one fob with my bike and want to add a passive spare. I went to the local deaer to ask them to add the passive spare to the ECU. They told me that is impossible. It is possible. I saw some posts about non dealers getting their own KDS software and KEI interface module. Anyone know where to get that?
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KDS, KEI (and a strong desire to strangle the local Kawasaki dealer!)
- Thread starter lloydcliff3210
- Start date
You can use KDS ver 3 on any C14. You need the hardware and latest software, which is about 5 years old now. The kits also occasionally come up on this forum or the other one http://www.zggtr.org/
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Because the C14 is/was the only bike with KIPASS, many dealers don't get enuff practice with it to use confidently for registering passive fobs especially, plus the instructions leave something to be desired in that regard. All new & old passive fobs must be registered/reregistered one after the other when adding a new one. Often times, only the last one to be registered will work due to the operator missing a crucial step - which is not spelled out clearly in the instructions.
I get it and can appreciate their challenge but the right response from the dealer is, "I'm not sure let me find out" not "it's impossible".
Registering a FOB, if you already have one coded to the bike, doesn't take long. Some of us on this site have KDS systems and may help if you are close.
Thank you. I'm in mid-Tennessee (north of Nashville).
You could just remove the battery from your existing fob and make sure that it will start the bike as described in the manual by holding it on the front of the ignition switch as described in the owner's manual, and then bring that fob to your local Locksmith and have the chip in the FOB cloned to a car key.
With this method there is no need for a KDS and you should be able to have multiples done for a small amount of money.
With this method there is no need for a KDS and you should be able to have multiples done for a small amount of money.
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Whoa! I had no idea this was possible. The PO could not find the secondary fob when I bought my 09. I have always been nervous about misplacing the fob. I will go to my buddy at my local Ace to set me up. Genius!
Wow, what an interesting idea. Sorry for being slow on the uptake but what is the significance of the first step "remove the battery..."? Is it simply to ensure that a passive FOB works? Am I correct in understanding that the car key FOB once cloned from the original works like a passive FOB not the active one?
Yes and yes
When the battery is in the FOB and the "stovetop" knob is depressed, a microswitch is closed and that starts the whole KIPASS "process" to begin. KIPASS interrogates the active FOB and the FOB replys with it's code. If that's the correct code, the stovetopm knob is unlocked, and you can then turn the stovetop knob and the bike can be started.
When the battery is removed from the FOB, obvoiusly the active FOB won't transmit the code to the KIPASS module to reply to the KIPASS interrogation after the stovetop knob is depressed. If the KIPASS doesn't get a reply, then the next step is for it to look for the RFID code from a RFID chip that 's also in the FOB. After the battery is removed and the key is removed from the FOB and if the FOB is held close to the location in front of the stovetop knob, the KIPASS will read the RFID code and if it's the correct code that has been entered into the KIPASS module, the stovetop knob is then unlocked and you can turn it and then start the bike.
So the reason why you need to remove the FOB battery is so the KIPASS will do the "fallback" and look for the RFID code after the KIPASS doesn't get a response from the active FOB.
BTW, sometimes the passive RFID is referred to as an "immobilizer".
BTW, don't expect the local ACE hardware to be able to read the RFID code in the FOB and make a passive key. Not all locksmith's even have the equipment to read the code since the equipment required is expensive. But maybe I'm wrong on this. One of the local locksmith's in Grand Rapids, MI told me this. He referred me to another locksmith that had the equipment. He also said after the code is read, usually the locksmith orders the new passive key from somewhere else and there is a delay in getting it.
I lost my only FOB and had to send the stovetop assembly to Carmo Electronics in California. They installed a new IC in the assembly ( with a known code ) and then sent me 2 Kawasaki keys that contains the RFID chip with the new code and that's what I have now - no active FOB, just a passive RFID key ( immobilizer ). It works fine.
When the battery is removed from the FOB, obvoiusly the active FOB won't transmit the code to the KIPASS module to reply to the KIPASS interrogation after the stovetop knob is depressed. If the KIPASS doesn't get a reply, then the next step is for it to look for the RFID code from a RFID chip that 's also in the FOB. After the battery is removed and the key is removed from the FOB and if the FOB is held close to the location in front of the stovetop knob, the KIPASS will read the RFID code and if it's the correct code that has been entered into the KIPASS module, the stovetop knob is then unlocked and you can turn it and then start the bike.
So the reason why you need to remove the FOB battery is so the KIPASS will do the "fallback" and look for the RFID code after the KIPASS doesn't get a response from the active FOB.
BTW, sometimes the passive RFID is referred to as an "immobilizer".
BTW, don't expect the local ACE hardware to be able to read the RFID code in the FOB and make a passive key. Not all locksmith's even have the equipment to read the code since the equipment required is expensive. But maybe I'm wrong on this. One of the local locksmith's in Grand Rapids, MI told me this. He referred me to another locksmith that had the equipment. He also said after the code is read, usually the locksmith orders the new passive key from somewhere else and there is a delay in getting it.
I lost my only FOB and had to send the stovetop assembly to Carmo Electronics in California. They installed a new IC in the assembly ( with a known code ) and then sent me 2 Kawasaki keys that contains the RFID chip with the new code and that's what I have now - no active FOB, just a passive RFID key ( immobilizer ). It works fine.
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What did that cost?
So this all gets me thinking... I wonder if the equipment used to interogate the original FOB and program a car FOB as a clone could also do the same with an actual Kawi passive FOB? You can buy these for about 40 bucks on Amazon. Each has a unique RFID code pre-coded into the chip and the usual approach is to add the new RFID code to the ECU, but given dealers don't seem to know how to do this, an alternate would be to put the RFID code already in the ECU into the new passive FOB. Will depend on if the passive FOBs are programmable or just read only?? The reason I like the Kawi passive fob is that it has the slot for a spare physical key also.
When I got mine done, I had to show them a picture and part number to get it ordered. When they got it in, no one had ever done it before in the service dept. It took em about an hour and a half to work it out but they did it. The best part was the service manager didnāt charge me a nickel cuz he said it was an educational experience for his service dept.
John
John
I believe they are read only. It shouldn't cost much more to have a locksmith with the required equipment clone the immobilizer RFID in your active FOB.
KIPASS cloning
I recently came across a posting on the Facebook Concours 14 page which claimed a successful clone of a 2010 key fob at a hardware store (Ace?) using a Ford truck digital key blank (for about $50). Anyone else succeed or attempt this? Cheers,
forum.concours.org
A friend of one of my c14 buddies cloned us several small chips,.I have one in the tip of my index finger on my summer and cooler weather gloves. Works great.
Cloned from my passive fob...
Cloned from my passive fob...
Now THAT would be the basis of an interest and useful article for the Concourier. How about it Patrick? Hmm? We might even be able to get you a ghost writer.
I would Ron, but the extent of.my input to the endeavor, was to give my buddy my passive fob. He then sent our fobs to his buddy in Norfolk.Now THAT would be the basis of an interest and useful article for the Concourier. How about it Patrick? Hmm? We might even be able to get you a ghost writer.
You can clone the passive chip your self fo about $200. For a chip cloner, 10 programmable chips, and 3 key blanks that have the cavity of the chip. I bought ever thing off of Amazon.
Here's the links to what I used to make mine.
Make sure that the key matches your's.
VVDI Mini Key Tool Remote Key... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083LWXYNY?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Pack of 10 VVDI Super Transponder... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0863MWCFC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
iTobest Motorcycle Blank Uncut... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P8KQ56M?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Here's the links to what I used to make mine.
Make sure that the key matches your's.
VVDI Mini Key Tool Remote Key... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083LWXYNY?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Pack of 10 VVDI Super Transponder... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0863MWCFC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
iTobest Motorcycle Blank Uncut... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09P8KQ56M?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
A local lock smith cloned a couple for me for about $65 for the pair and mounted them in a couple of blanks. The whole process took all of about 15 minutes to complete along with payment and a short conversation. This was done several years ago.
I live within 25 minutes from Grand Rapids, MI. My bike came from Texas and the owner lost the passive FOB. Could you share the area locksmith who could clone a FOB for me? Thanks in advance!
Hes selling a lot of them.
I am.