Toy Ride - Disturbing

[dalroo]

I rode with a group of friends in a toy ride today, and unfortunately, as much as I enjoy seeing a huge group of folks on bikes coming out to provide a Merry Christmas for children who might otherwise not have much joy, today was most likely the last time I participate. First, I am usually pretty choosy on who I ride with, and don't enjoy novices or idiots. Novices can gain experience, idiots typically remain so. My preference is to avoid idiots, and to let the novices learn somewhere a long way away from me. And though I enjoy a frosty brew as much as anyone, not at 10 AM, and not while I'm riding with a couple of thousand of other bikes.

With all that said, things were going okay until about 1/2 way through the 20 mile ride. The rider immediately ahead of me was riding on the left side of the lane, when for some reason he decided that he and his passenger needed to move to the right hand side of the lane and high-five the spectators standing on the shoulder. Not sure why, but after shifting to the right, he grabbed a BIG handful of front brake and lost the front tire. His passenger landed on her butt and was very nearly run over by the bike staggered to my right. Fortunately, like me, he saw it coming and was already slowing. The rider slid with the bike for several feet, bounced his head on the pavement (no helmet, and the Santa hat probably didn't help much) and then rolled onto his belly looking back in fear waiting for me to run over him. I didn't. I had already slowed down and wasn't riding real tight to start, and no one was on my tail to rear-end me. There were lots of people already moving their way, and since I have absolutely zero medical training, I kept moving so not to create even more of a traffic hazard. A friend of mine was further back and saw that the bike had already been moved off the road, and the people we off to the side sitting. That is good news

So to make matters (almost) worse, about a mile further up the road, a dude passes me, merges back into the parade several bikes in front of me, starts waiving to spectators on an overpass, just as the parade slows in front of him. He JAMS his rear brake, spews a ton of gray smoke, and I'm thinking, "okay, this one is gonna be worse", but fortunately he was able to get off his brake, and run onto the shoulder avoiding what could have been a really severe accident.

I come from 15 years on Harleys, and this is not anti-HD. It is more in line with the way I feel when I see sport bike riders doing wheelies in traffic on the freeway. You can gain experience and live to be an old biker. But there aren't many old idiot bikers. If you are a knucklehead, find another hobby that better suffers fools. Motorcycling is not for you.

So, going back to my original thinking that I don't want to ride with novices or idiots - riding with a huge group of strangers is probably not a decision I will be making in the future. Instead, I will send in my donation.

 

[gsun]

I have never participated in a big group ride for this exact reason. I get asked to go along a politely decline by saying "You have to be joking..." I don't see doing it in the future either. The most I have ridden with is about four and that is two or three too many.

 

[S Smith]

IMHO these types of charity runs are not a group ride - they are more like a circus parade.  For the most part it's a bunch of elephants tail to trunk playing follow the leader, with an occasional clown performance tossed in between.

Group riding can be a safe and enjoyable experience if conducted with some guidelines and common sense. A good start place is reading over the MSF Group Riding" Quick Tips:
http://msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf

 

[ChipDoc]

When I first got back into motorcycling about ten years ago, I participated in a lot of these rides.  I stopped for the exact reasons you mentioned.  Nice suggestions in the MSF pdf too, though I would peg the "ideal" number of participants in a group at three - more than that and you can't really be fully aware of what everyone else in the group is doing.

And one more thing:  There are those who ride passionately and there are those who buy a motorcycle and use it almost exclusively for bar-hopping several times a month.  I'm happy to ride with the former; they understand that riding a bike is a "single-combat" sort of situation - however many people you're with, it's inherently something which you do alone.  If you're the pilot then it's YOUR ass in the sling.  They know their limits and ride within them and don't allow peer pressure to change their riding style (much).  They're used to paying attention because they know that's what keeps them alive.  The others are used to driving drunk.  While that can  admittedly be a valuable skill in certain situations, I'd rather not be riding in a cluster of folks like this.

The sad part is that it took me a few years to come to this realization.  Having said this, I do enjoy participating in the occasional bike night - but those are "walking around the parking lot" events rather than riding events.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I don't care for riding with more than just a few bikes. IMO, once there is say, 6 or more bikes, we should probably split into more than one group. I do not like parades. And toy runs fit into that catagory. What you discribed is only part of the reason. I am by no means anti any type of bike. But these type of events do tend to attract more of a cruiser crowd. That's also OK. But I really also do not enjoy riding in a parade surrounded by bikes with loud pipes. And this is what it always seems to be like for me. So between your observations and what I added. I tend to avoid such rides, myself.   

 

[S Smith]

When I first got back into motorcycling about ten years ago, I participated in a lot of these rides.  I stopped for the exact reasons you mentioned.  Nice suggestions in the MSF pdf too, though I would peg the "ideal" number of participants in a group at three - more than that and you can't really be fully aware of what everyone else in the group is doing.

The "ideal" number of riders in a group greatly depends on the make up of the group.  If three works best for you, then that is a great target number.  There are other factors that come into play including rider skill level and familiarity riding with the group. 

 

[ManWorkingHere]

Having said this, I do enjoy participating in the occasional bike night - but those are "walking around the parking lot" events rather than riding events.

+1 on 'Bike Nights'.

Having the H-D museum in my back yard provides an easy way to see all the H-D variants I want. But more importantly, I know many H-D riders are there and off the roads. Then I can go out and enjoy myself among those who want to ride.  ;D

And there are non H-D bike nights nearby too where you can see quite a collection of older or other cycles.
http://eventful.com/milwaukee_wi/venues/quaker-steak-and-lube-bike-night-/V0-001-005055105-8/events/past

 

[DanLong]

My wife talked me into doing some parade one time, her ladies riding club was involved and had a booth at the destination. It was a short ride, so while I usually shy away from these things for the same reasons mentioned above, I went along. We're at the staging area, and had just signed in. This woman on a Heritage Classic, all chromed out and purdy looking, comes cruising up. She's wearing a white leather coat, a white fur "Russian" type hat, and white fur boots with her designer jeans tucked in. She's intent on making her "entrance", not paying attention to where she's going, waving to everyone. The table for registration is on a sidewalk and it's a narrow lane with concrete curbs on both sides (it was in back of a school). She practically takes out the registration table and swerves herself to a stop. I tell my wife"watch where she gets in line, we're getting way ahead of her, I don't want to be anywhere near her when she takes out spectators".

Another thing we don't do anymore is "Bike Week". One time we went to Wildwood NJ, as my Aunt lives in Cape May and we figured we'd take the ferry over, visit my Aunt, and then hit the festivities. I was a fairly new rider at the time, and even in my inexperience knew I was seeing a wonderful display of people who should not be on bikes. One woman was making a left turn from one street to another, with heavy bike traffic. She's bucking thru the intersection, and getting all pissy with the people in front of her, who can't help that there is nowhere for them to go. She had no idea how to feather her clutch to keep the bike from jumping around. People who don't put their feet up on the pegs until it's time to shift into 2nd gear, or those who have to have their feet on the highway pegs at 2mph. Riders who put their foot down when going around a turn, like that's going to help them if they fall. Since NJ is a helmet state you had the rest of the idiots with their helmets perched on top of their heads, not even down over their ears. Every bike louder than the last and everyone showing how loud their bike could get. On the ferry over there, my wife and I were 2 of 3 metric bikes on the entire boat. There wasn't a single sport bike, it was all cruisers. One of my 1st experiences with the land pirate mentality.

 

[caldron68]

Yeah, been there done that and never will again. Same sort of experiences, guys who won't/can't maintain their lane in front of you, ridiculously short rides (20 miles or less) and then 4 hours spent drinking beer in some dump of a bar. I hate the posturing and, as somebody else already mentioned, the circus like atmosphere. And if you think these kind of rides are bad, you should head to Sturgis one year for the full experience. Everybody and I mean everybody in Sturgis must demonstrate how loud their bike is when doing the following things:

- Pulling away from a stop light
- Pulling up to a stop light
- Turning left after a full stop
- Turning right after a full stop
- Struggling to find just the right parking position
- Pulling away from their meticulously selected parking position
- Before shutting their bike off
- Just after starting their bike
- And for no other reason than somebody else revved THEIR bike

I tell ya I almost went insane. Imagine 700,000 bikers ALL doing this ALL day long. Fortunately, I spent a grand total
of 2 hours in the town of Sturgis before realizing that the real ride was out there in the Black Hills. The ride is well
worth the trip. The gathering in Sturgis is just another circus event.

 

[ConcoursKZ]

I really don't like riding with more than 5 total either. Way too much work watching the other riders. I find a two hour ride leaves me exhausted and all I want to do is sleep.  300 poorly tuned HD's with open exhaust traveling at irregular speeds breaking into corners for no reason is hell. No constant speed or rhythm is ever attained. Getting boxed in while semis pass on the right.  Twisting the throttle like some kind of mating call. Almost falling over as someones wife attempts to get off the back at the next bar holding the poker hand and smoking at the same time. Once was enough for me. I have three buddies I ride with and you never have to worry about what they are doing and we can easily ride all day.

 

[DanLong]

The dealer I go to had a "Snowball Haul" ride to benefit a charity. They split into a cruiser and sport group. The cruiser ride is more laid back, lots of Wings, HD's and metric bikes. The sport/ST group is a more "spirited" ride and hits a lot more twisty parts. A couple cruisers went with the sport group, which is cool if you don't cause problems and have the skill to do the ride at the speed set by the leader. Of course, we get this guy on a 1600 Meanstreak with obnoxious pipes, and a full pirate "Sons of Armageddon" get up. I guess he figures he has a muscle bike and can keep up with the ST bikes. Lucky for me, he lines up in front of me. All day I followed this numbnuts as he drifted thru the curves at decreasing speed then guns his engine when the road straightens out, cracking the throttle at every opportunity. Wobbling thru the curves. Drifting back and forth in his lane. Riding up on the rider in front of him when he'd crack his throttle and then drifting back. Full 1st gear let's be as loud as possible accelleration from every stop. I finally backed off a couple hundred yards because I got tired of trying to predict his movments and having him cramp my ride. I want to accellerate thru the curves, not back off my speed and drift thru them so I can nail it on the straight parts. We made a pit stop and the guy who was in front of this guy made a comment about him riding up on him, and how he was worried he was going to cause a wreck. I told him how he was all over the place in the curves too. The guy on a connie behind me said he saw what I was doing by dropping back and he'd have done the same thing, and a couple other guys who were back there said they saw what was going on too. It was ugly and dangerous to have him in our group. Hindsight being 20/20, we should have told the ride leader and had him talk to the guy and either move him right behind the leader or put him in back of everyone who was trying to do the ride at set pace. It pretty much ruined the ride for a lot of us.

 

[ChipDoc]

Everybody and I mean everybody in Sturgis must demonstrate how loud their bike is when doing the following things:

The gathering in Sturgis is just another circus event.

It's that way in Daytona too, though Daytona has the advantage (?) of being SO crowded that you hardly ever get above walking speed until you get out of the downtown.  The insanity's the same though.

Here's an example:  I was sitting at the light at Nova Rd and International Speedway Dr and there was a group of sport bikers there in the turn lane with me, each of whom was revving his engine right up to red line.  One of them was doing it more intensely than the others - until he blew his engine up sitting right there at the light.

I was an idiot myself when I was younger.  Now that I'm older, I try harder to avoid that.

 

[ChipDoc]

We made a pit stop and the guy who was in front of this guy made a comment about him riding up on him, and how he was worried he was going to cause a wreck. I told him how he was all over the place in the curves too. It was ugly and dangerous to have him in our group. Hindsight being 20/20, we should have told the ride leader and had him talk to the guy and either move him right behind the leader or put him in back of everyone who was trying to do the ride at set pace. It pretty much ruined the ride for a lot of us.

I have a confession to make.  I am that guy.  Not the guy with the 1600 Meanstreak; the guy you don't want to get stuck behind in the twisties.  At least I recognized it at the time and backed off early.

I once took a ride to the Deals Gap area with the Southern Cruisers.  They're a great bunch of folks and were a lot of fun to hang out with.  But I live in Florida and have simply never developed the skills needed to ride aggressively in the mountains.  Don't get me wrong - I absolutely love riding in the mountains.  I just do it more conservatively than folks who ride there regularly.

I started in the middle of the pack and did just fine until we got to the tight turns.  Fortunately for everyone involved, I simply pulled off and let everyone go by and rode the rest of the day on my own, picking up with other small groups occasionally.  I had a great time!  With the GPS on my dash, I wasn't worried about getting lost.  I wound leisurely through the mountains and actually hooked back up with a few other of the group who were having trouble with the pace.  We had some great pix to share when we all met up at the end of the day.  The next day, we started off in many little groups and nobody had any problems at all.

 

[DanLong]

ChipDoc, you obviously are NOT that guy. You realized what was going on and rode your own ride. There's nothing wrong with that. There aren't any mountains around here either and I'm sure I'd hold up riders who were more experienced in that type of setting as well, and I'd do what you did. This guy didn't realize what he was doing and what anxiety he was causing for the bikes around him. If he had, he'd have backed off and let us go ahead of him.

There were several points where I thought about passing him, but didn't want to piss anyone off.

 

[2linby]

All the local "Toy Runs" and any other holiday parade around here is an excuse for the anti-helmet elements to ride without theirs. Under the auspices of the event being a "parade". Even one of the County commissioners rides this way. I've done several of these in the past and just like the original PO I think from now on I'll mail a check.  Although I've personally not experienced anyone drinking and riding I am certain it is routine as these Toy runs attract hundreds of riders of which a large portion are the ones I see parked in front of the taverns. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck......

 

[mcfly]

Being relatively new to the street bike scene, I have done a few group rides
of 3 or 4 people, and I'm thankful for having responsible riders to ride with.
I'm the only sport tourer in the group, the rest being a Vic and HD dressers.
Though I got some initial ribbing, they now respect me as a safe rider.
I've learned from these guys, how to group ride properly. 

I had my Connie for a week and a half, and was fighting a hung idle when I was asked to go on
the Toy Run in Brevard County FL.  I humbly declined, stating my bike and its
rider weren't ready for that.  Glad I did decline.  I rode my bike to the parade
and parked roadside to support the cause.  What I saw was....disturbing at times.

I completely agree with the OP.  Take riding seriously, or don't ride.  I take this
'hobby' very seriously.  I just don't understand how hap-hazardly some people
ride.  I don't get 'waiving safety to be cool'.  I joined COG because the people
here seem to share the same beliefs.

Ride Safe.  Ride Smart.  (or take the bus)

 

[Cap'n Bob]

All the local "Toy Runs" and any other holiday parade around here is an excuse for the anti-helmet elements to ride without theirs. Under the auspices of the event being a "parade". Even one of the County commissioners rides this way. I've done several of these in the past and just like the original PO I think from now on I'll mail a check.  Although I've personally not experienced anyone drinking and riding I am certain it is routine as these Toy runs attract hundreds of riders of which a large portion are the ones I see parked in front of the taverns. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck......

I'm just curious how folks desire not to have to use a helmet, makes them unsafe as most of this thread is about? Just because someone makes different choices on how they feel they want to risk protecting their body than you. How does that make them unsafe or any of the other items mentioned here. I can "ride" safe or dangerous with or without a helmet.  I just bugs me when folks always have to turn these conversations into your personal choices in riding protection, rather than what the tread is actually about!  ???

 

[ChipDoc]

I am a lifetime member of ABATE (sure was fun having enough money to do that sort of thing once) and I believe in it wholeheartedly.  Not wearing a helmet hurts nobody but yourself.  Those who choose not to wear one simply pay the price in blood.  Here in the States, we have a long history of doing exactly that.

Having said that, I personally CHOOSE to wear a helmet (and the rest of the gear) every time I ride.  Wearing a helmet should be a CHOICE, not THE LAW.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I am a lifetime member of ABATE (sure was fun having enough money to do that sort of thing once) and I believe in it wholeheartedly.  Not wearing a helmet hurts nobody but yourself.  Those who choose not to wear one simply pay the price in blood.  Here in the States, we have a long history of doing exactly that.

Having said that, I personally CHOOSE to wear a helmet (and the rest of the gear) every time I ride.  Wearing a helmet should be a CHOICE, not THE LAW.

:iagree:  I know we're off topic, Sorry. But I agree 100%! Very well said. I personally think it's a little foolish to chance your life without at least some sort of helmet to protect yourself. But I can say that when I have been in a state the allows choice. I have rode down the street a short distance without my helmet (probably to get beer  :beerchug. I will say that I was really careful of every more because I felt unprotected (more than normal). So I pretty much always use some sort of helmet. But it's my choice to do so.
That was may choice and I knew the risks. I try not to tell folks what they should use or not use. I feel that it should be they're choice. But I also don't care for folks preaching what they think my choices should be either. Because it is my choice, not their's. I feel that if you can't allow that. Then please keep your thoughts to yourself.  With that said, back on topic.  :motonoises:

 

[Ranger Jim]

I'm going to go off topic because ChipDoc pushed one of my buttons (which is okay and should be encouraged) when he said, "Not wearing a helmet hurts nobody but yourself."  That is true ONLY when: (1) You have NO familly members (mom, dad, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, cousin, wife, daughter, son, etc). (2) You have NO friends.  If you fall into that circumstance, you're right; you hurt no one but yourself.  I always wear a helmet but I do not condemn those who make the choice not to but, those who choose not to wear a helmet should never imagine they will hurt only themselves.  Off the soapbox now and returning you to the original thread.

 

[Meadow]

Over the last six years I have made a lot of  PG on funeral mission rides. Typically the group, 50 to several hundred, would meet at a predetermined location and ride whatever 10 miles or 100 miles to the funeral ceremony for flag lines.  After a while I made the decision to always  be either last or at least close to last or take a different route or just leave after the main group. There was always plenty of time to get to the final location. I never participate in escort rides. In those you ride with the group, period.  Most PG riders are older but some still have what I feel to be less then safe thinking, a touch of testosterone.

On a different scenario:  A few years back I was out on a lone ranger ride when I spotted a large group coming up form behind. Pulled over the inside  lane to let them past. They were coming up fast in the outside lane. Individuals decided to share my lane with me, lane split between members of their own group and in general ride all over the place. HD dealer was having a poker run. Wonder what their  liabilities are if a serious accident happens?

 

[mcfly]

Riding in a group is a 'discipline'.  As with any discipline, the people have to abide
by the rules when they ride in groups.  The problem with these huge rides is the
a good number of people don't ride by the rules, nor do they understand the
reason why they exist.  Some don't even know there ARE rules for group rides.
One being keep the size of the group limited.

Mix that with show-offs, leaders that aren't up front, people that think it's moving
too slow, others that don't know how to feather the clutch to ride safely when the
'parade' slows... the list goes on and on.  Pool all these people together, and you've
got a recipe for a cluster-f*(|<.

I commend everyone that shows up to donate their time/money for a good cause,
it IS quite a spectacle, and done for a good cause.  It CAN be dangerous, so if you
do participate, you have to understand the risks.
I just don't think that big of a 'group' can ride together safely.

 

[davemuir]

I'm going to go off topic because ChipDoc pushed one of my buttons (which is okay and should be encouraged) when he said, "Not wearing a helmet hurts nobody but yourself."  That is true ONLY when: (1) You have NO familly members (mom, dad, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, cousin, wife, daughter, son, etc). (2) You have NO friends.  If you fall into that circumstance, you're right; you hurt no one but yourself.  I always wear a helmet but I do not condemn those who make the choice not to but, those who choose not to wear a helmet should never imagine they will hurt only themselves.  Off the soapbox now and returning you to the original thread.

Well, I was hoping this topic would just fizzle out...but since someone brought it back to life....

I'm sorry Jim but don't kid yourself either... You take almost the same risk throwing a leg over your motorcycle. If (God forbid) you were to get into a fatal motorcycle accident, do you think your family and friends are going to take comfort in the thought that you wore a helmet?

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Chip Doc wanted to have a helmet thread (that seems to be what's going on here). So he started a thread just for this purpose. Lets move the helmet debate over to that thread now (please). Although if you want to discuss the actual toy ride incident. (and not just debate helmet laws).  By all means feel free to continue posting about the toy ride in this thread. 

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,31395.0.html

 

[3greens]

well i ride  a zg1400  with a  bunch of hd riders,i have abs,so i stick to  the rear of the group,two reasons  i know how to control the traffic behind me to cover  the group, second i have abs!! found out one day,  was in the middle of  a group  when something went wrong in front of me  i can stop a lot better than the av  hd when it comes to stopping,  result i nearly  got creamed from the rear its fun to ride with  a group but  i am finding  its safer to stick with  your  bike type on a ride,  just my thoughts

 

[OMoaC]

Great thread. Feel the sameway but never said anything for fear of being the floater in the punch bowl. I used to ride with buddies that could think what you were thinking and you could do the same. There's nothing better than that type of group. Searching for that kind of connection again. Hopefully found it here.

 

[S Smith]

well i ride  a zg1400  with a  bunch of hd riders,i have abs,so i stick to  the rear of the group,two reasons  i know how to control the traffic behind me to cover  the group, second i have abs!! found out one day,  was in the middle of  a group  when something went wrong in front of me  i can stop a lot better than the av  hd when it comes to stopping,  result i nearly  got creamed from the rear its fun to ride with  a group but  i am finding  its safer to stick with  your  bike type on a ride,  just my thoughts

One group of guys I ride without issues is an eclectic mix of cruisers, sport, sport touring, adventuring touring. It is all about the riders.

The C14 braking is probably better than a HD with ABS, but IMHO this is only a part of the problem.  Many cruiser-type group rides tend to have the parade mentality.  To large of a group, with some inattentive riders, and many who do not maintain proper following distance, or keep a safe space cushion. 

 

[S Smith]

Great thread. Feel the sameway but never said anything for fear of being the floater in the punch bowl. I used to ride with buddies that could think what you were thinking and you could do the same. There's nothing better than that type of group. Searching for that kind of connection again. Hopefully found it here.

It always works out better to ride with like-minded riders with similar riding skill.  With club rides you will find the like-mindedness, but maybe not the same skill.  It is always good to have a rider meeting and set the ground rules when riding with a new group for the first time or have one or more new riders with the group.  IMHO it should be mandatory for all riders to have read and understand the principles of "The Pace."

 

[davemuir]

IMHO it should be mandatory for all riders to have read and understand the principles of "The Pace."

In what bizarre world do you live in? Mandatory?? Seriously?? Will there be a quiz before riding with you to ensure the "understanding" part??  : I think your helmet is on too tight  :nananana:

 

[Cap'n Bob]

OH boy, here we go!  :-*

 

[rwjc]

to helmet or not to helmet? THAT is the question.
And it is a personal choice.

There is a wise old saying, an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Now to ask why someone would not want their skull protected seems like a stupid question? Comfort? Cooler? Look cool or tough? Who knows? Not our business really.

That said....I choose to wear only a full face, always a full face, and nothing but a full face. I care enough about myself, my wife, my children, and future grandchildren to do it? Will a helmet save my life? God knows. But based on seeing the track guys go down and surviving bc of a helmet, I feel it is worth any slight uncomfort/sweat. Is that to say people like CD don't, no....

But just like the guy in a tshirt, shorts, and slip on crocs. Forest's momma had something to say bout that...

At any rate, ride safe, be on the lookout, and keep the rubber firmly planted. Get home safely.

 

[mcfly]

IMHO it should be mandatory for all riders to have read and understand the principles of "The Pace."

In what bizarre world do you live in? Mandatory?? Seriously?? Will there be a quiz before riding with you to ensure the "understanding" part??  : I think your helmet is on too tight  :nananana:

A test?  Prolly not.  Tests don't do squat.  Every idiot on the road had to take a test.  Lotta good that did.  :banghead:
BUT asking the guy/gal if they're familiar with group riding... I don't think that's 'over the top'.
"The Pace" makes a good number of important points.  I can understand what Steve's implying.
If you group ride in a club, making "The Pace" a mandatory read would be understandable.

 

[davemuir]

"The Pace" makes a good number of important points.  I can understand what Steve's implying.
If you group ride in a club, making "The Pace" a mandatory read would be understandable.

Oh I understand what Steve in implying...
But if any club I was a member of stated that I must read and understand a philosophy about how to ride in a group before I got the privilege of riding with them, I wouldn't be spending time riding with them.  Now, if I joined a riding club and asked about how this club "group rides"; then suggesting "The Pace" would be a good idea.

 

[2linby]

"The Pace" makes a good number of important points.  I can understand what Steve's implying.
If you group ride in a club, making "The Pace" a mandatory read would be understandable.

Oh I understand what Steve in implying...
But if any club I was a member of stated that I must read and understand a philosophy about how to ride in a group before I got the privilege of riding with them, I wouldn't be spending time riding with them.  Now, if I joined a riding club and asked about how this club "group rides"; then suggesting "The Pace" would be a good idea.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member." Groucho Marx

 

[S Smith]

"The Pace" makes a good number of important points.  I can understand what Steve's implying.
If you group ride in a club, making "The Pace" a mandatory read would be understandable.

Oh I understand what Steve in implying...
But if any club I was a member of stated that I must read and understand a philosophy about how to ride in a group before I got the privilege of riding with them, I wouldn't be spending time riding with them.  Now, if I joined a riding club and asked about how this club "group rides"; then suggesting "The Pace" would be a good idea.

Ohhhh... stop being such a  :sign0099:

:nananana:

 

[ConcoursKZ]

"The Pace" makes a good number of important points.  I can understand what Steve's implying.
If you group ride in a club, making "The Pace" a mandatory read would be understandable.

Oh I understand what Steve in implying...
But if any club I was a member of stated that I must read and understand a philosophy about how to ride in a group before I got the privilege of riding with them, I wouldn't be spending time riding with them.  Now, if I joined a riding club and asked about how this club "group rides"; then suggesting "The Pace" would be a good idea.

Ohhhh... stop being such a  :sign0099:

:nananana:

Clubs have rules. I think they should. Riders with limited experience should be handled different than accomplished ones. Stick a new guy in a pack and you are liable to end up with a parking lot. Having to read The Pace as a prerequisite isn't asking much. It would be a good idea to start new members out in a controlled small group on a common road to determine skill level. Some people never understand the concept of small pack riding let alone large groups. The rider that claims he is the best never is.

 

[S Smith]

Clubs have rules. I think they should. Riders with limited experience should be handled different than accomplished ones. Stick a new guy in a pack and you are liable to end up with a parking lot. Having to read The Pace as a prerequisite isn't asking much. It would be a good idea to start new members out in a controlled small group on a common road to determine skill level. Some people never understand the concept of small pack riding let alone large groups. The rider that claims he is the best never is.

COG has ride guidelines. They are posted in the member area library over on the club's main web pages. It's a good idea to be somewhat flexible as riding environment and riders vary per each locale. 

Even within a locale, each ride group needs to set their own ride guideline parameters and expectations, and communicate them to others in the ride group... especially to those riding with the group the first time.

 

[Paulie]

This idjit (yers truly) back in my olde pre-COG dayz joined a big group ride.  I didn't pay much attn to the reason/background for it. But was kinda surprised when there was an announcement/command to "take off yer helmet & git on yer bike" at the start. It turned out to be an ABATE shindig.

I've filed participating in that snafu as one of my dumbest D'Oh! moments.  :

 

[ConcoursKZ]

““Motorcycle fatalities are not only our number one source of organs,” said one surgeon. “They are also the highest-quality source of organs, because donors are usually young, healthy people with no other traumatic injuries to the body, except to the head.””

Tim

 

[2linby]

““Motorcycle fatalities are not only our number one source of organs,” said one surgeon. “They are also the highest-quality source of organs, because donors are usually young, healthy people with no other traumatic injuries to the body, except to the head.””

Tim

Well that statement excludes most of us here! 

 

[davemuir]

Well that statement excludes most of us here! 

But not all Safety-Boy  :nananana:
I'm not that young, nor am I that healthy 

 

[2linby]

Well that statement excludes most of us here! 

But not all Safety-Boy  :nananana:
I'm not that young, nor am I that healthy 

With that witty illread retort I can only assume you already have a "head Injury"!  HA!  :-[ :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Well that statement excludes most of us here! 

But not all Safety-Boy  :nananana:
I'm not that young, nor am I that healthy 

With that witty illread retort I can only assume you already have a "head Injury"!  HA!  :-[ :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Ouch, great comeback!    :rotflmao:

 

[davemuir]

With that witty illread retort I can only assume you already have a "head Injury"!  HA!  :-[ :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

True...but it did not happen on a motorcycle 

 

[willyp]

Epic Fail, Dave, your retort is self contradicting.

 

[2linby]

With that witty illread retort I can only assume you already have a "head Injury"!  HA!  :-[ :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

True...but it did not happen on a motorcycle 

I have a mental picture of you and the wife and she is swinging a heavy cast iron frying pan! 

 

[Ranger Jim]

This is going seriously off topic and is on the verge of being locked. :deadhorse: Someone needs to convince me this is actually worth leaving open.

 

[davemuir]

I was hoping it died on page 2!  :truce:

But like you Jim, when I see my hot topic button pushed, I tend to respond. Not always the smartest thing I do  :rotflmao:

OK, let's bring it back on topic....

I've never gone on a toy run, went on one "Bikers for Babies - MS ride" many many years ago. It was fun, getting to ride with so many other people, going thru all those red lights (police escorted! woo hoo!), everybody waving at you and it was for a good cause. Sure, 99% of those people I'd never want to ride with but there wasn't a single incident. 100's, even 1000's of these "rides" happen every year, most for very good causes and most go off without incidents. I know people with motorcycles who love these rides, they'll go on 10 or more of them a year. They really wouldn't care to ride much over a 100 miles per day...or even over a weekend. Doesn't make them bad people...or any less of a motorcyclist in my book.

 

[ChipDoc]

This is going seriously off topic and is on the verge of being locked. :deadhorse: Someone needs to convince me this is actually worth leaving open.

Maybe it would help to remind folks that there's a topic out there just for this...

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,31395.0.html

 

[duffy]

The IDEA of a Toy run is great....  The REALITY of a Toy run is a different story... I'll just donate $10. via the internet, and save myself all the grief.

 

[willyp]

I'll just donate $10. via the internet, and save myself all the grief.

Good idea. I've never participated, but it is pretty amazing to see thousands of bikes go by.